1974 roundie... is that possible? or mistaken seller?

[A6ndrew]

Hello all. First post here, long time lurker. Looking to pick up a 2002 of some sort in the near future.

 

Anyway - I found a 2002 for sale that states the year as 1974 but the photos show round tail lights. My understanding is that 74-76 was square tails. Is it possible that some early 74's still had round tail lights or is this seller mistaken on the year of his vehicle?

 

I guess another option is that someone at some point swapped the rear end with an earlier model... rear end accident maybe.

 

What does the braintrust here say? Any input appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Simeon]

@Conserv will be here shortly to correct me but I think you need to take into account calendar years Vs model years which may start in September. Pretty sure that early on in the calendar year of 1974 they were still making roundies even if they were still 1973 MY. 

 

The best bet is to get hold of the VIN and send it on to the BMW heritage email address (which I am hoping Steve can remember as well when he gets here). Aside from the info that BMW will send back about the car (free of charge!) the number should be able to tell us whether it was round or square coming from the factory. A rear end swap (actually just the centre panel is different is a definite possibility but let’s identify the car first. 

[02Les]

If it's this car, currently on Ebay & mentioned in TNan's post down the page, it is VIN 2590767 which is probably an a late April 1973 production.

[jp5Touring]

Would proceed with caution,  but you never know

 

https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/243833-02-scam/

[A6ndrew]

Thanks everyone.... I messaged the seller through ebay yesterday but no response yet, hence my post here. Definitely looks suspicious. 

[Conserv]

Unless you’re in a country where the year of initial registration determines the model year on your title, there are no round taillight 1974 models.  Round taillight cars ceased production in late July 1973.

 

There are, however, mis-titled cars. My early 1970 (VIN 1668093, manufactured September 8, 1969) was erroneously titled by PA, when new, as a 1969.  I tried to correct it after I purchased it, but PA somehow “corrected” it to 1971. I complained, and they returned it to 1969. I gave up. On average, it was titled as a 1970.... ?

 

As you’ve already been warned about this car, above, step carefully here...

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by Conserv

[Guy Cocquyt]

There is another thread about this car this week that suggests caution. This ebay ad in California is using the exact sand photos and write-up as used in a recent Connors Motors ad in Pennsylvania. Corners had it listed correctly as a 73.

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[NYNick]

My mechanic showed me something I wasn't aware of. If you remove the rear light fixture, you can see the outside curve of a roundie light fixture but the inside rectangle of a square tail light. It looks like the factory simply changed the middle piece of the rear to create square tail light cars. It would make sense.

 

He in fact (told me) removed his middle piece on his 74, replaced it with an earlier models middle piece and turned it into a roundie. If he could do it, a 74 with round tail lights is possible.

 

Is this correct? Sure looks like it to my untrained eye.

 

Conserv?

[02Les]

Yes, that's correct. The side/quarter panel was basically the same for round & square '02 sedans.

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, NYNick said:

My mechanic showed me something I wasn't aware of. If you remove the rear light fixture, you can see the outside curve of a roundie light fixture but the inside rectangle of a square tail light. It looks like the factory simply changed the middle piece of the rear to create square tail light cars. It would make sense.

 

He in fact (told me) removed his middle piece on his 74, replaced it with an earlier models middle piece and turned it into a roundie. If he could do it, a 74 with round tail lights is possible.

 

Is this correct? Sure looks like it to my untrained eye.

 

Conserv?

 

That’s right, Nick, the quarter panels were not altered with the advent of the square taillight cars; they simply changed the rear upper valance between the taillights.

 

My ‘76, below, is just another illustration.

 

But swapping a round taillight nosepiece and rear upper valance onto a square taillight don’t make it a roundie, unless you also swap VIN’s! ?

 

And in the instance of this thread’s subject, the car retains the round taillight VIN it had when it sold recently.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[NYNick]

OK Thx.

Of course, round tail lights alone do not a Roundie make!

[Mike Self]

13 hours ago, 02Les said:

VIN 2590767 which is probably an a late April 1973 production.

The last US spec roundie was 2594704 and would have been produced sometime in late August 1973.  Someone on the FAQ recently posted that he had bought 2593664, which is the 40th from the last US roundie built and the highest number I've seen.

 

Squarelight production would have begun in Sept 1973, but in the US all those cars produced prior to 1 Jan 74 would have been titled as '74s. 

 

mike

[02Les]

1 hour ago, mike said:

The last US spec roundie was 2594704 and would have been produced sometime in late August 1973.  Someone on the FAQ recently posted that he had bought 2593664, which is the 40th from the last US roundie built and the highest number I've seen.

 

Squarelight production would have begun in Sept 1973, but in the US all those cars produced prior to 1 Jan 74 would have been titled as '74s. 

 

mike

 

Mike,

 

Late last year, 2593670 (Metallic Malaga) was auctioned on BAT & was in GA.

A year ago, 2593679 (Atlantik) was for sale in Cleveland, OH.

In 1991, 2593703 was for sale in SC in the Roundel. It was a rusty project car, so, probably long gone now.

[Conserv]

BMW production is often not as clearly defined as a model year commencing September 1 and ending August 31. And the European model year can differ somewhat from the U.S. model year. Square taillight production is a good example of variations from the “expected”.

 

The records show that 120 RHD manual-transmission square taillight cars, VIN’s 4200001 through 4200120, were manufactured in August 1973.

 

The records also show that 1,208 LHD manual-transmission square taillight cars, VIN’s 3660005 through 3661212, were manufactured in August 1973. And four cars, VIN’s 3660001 through 3660004 — prototypes, production, and testing samples, I’d guess — were manufactured in June 1973.

 

Thus, 1,312 square taillight cars were manufactured before September 1, 1973. These were Euro-spec cars, both RHD and LHD.

 

But the production of the U.S.-spec square taillight cars did not commence until October 1973, and only 40 U.S.-spec cars, VIN’s 4220001 through 4220040, were manufactured before November 1, 1973.

 

This information is available using RealOEM.com’s month-of-production capacity — which only begins with the 1974 model year — cross-checking the data found therein with the following production data from our Archives:

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by Conserv

[Mike Self]

19 hours ago, Conserv said:

BMW production is often not as clearly defined as a model year commencing September 1 and ending August 31. And the European model year can differ somewhat from the U.S. model year.

And to further build on this...the "start-stop" VINs by year from BMW refer to their production figures from 1 January to 31 December, while here in the US we go by model year, which might vary slightly from state to state, but generally is 1 September to 31 August. 

 

This can cause confusion when you contact BMW Classic about your particular car, if it turns out to have been built between 1 Sept and 31 Dec.  BMW would consider such a car that was built in the period in 1973 as a "1973" car; we here in the US would consider it (and it would be titled as) a 1974.  

 

cheers

mike