NOT-rebodied 74 tii on BAT

[conkitchen]

While I have no skin in the game for this car and the online auction site it is currently listed, I could not help but notice these little signs which raise a flag as to this vehicle being a re-body which is not disclosed.  

 

Obviously the snorkel nose is present-but that's a debate not worth mentioning here. 

Image #1: Trunk/gas tank. While the electric fuel pump wire does route through the support structure it is A) caulked -in when not supposed to be, also the hole it passes through should be a tube with a flared end which is not seen, In addition, the region of the trunk floor where the fuel pump assembly mounts from the underside has a circular hole cut into it. There should not be any holes there whatsoever. I suppose they intended to run the wires for the pump through that hole before they corrected the position to under the floor board cover.  

Image #2 Undercarriage/rear sub frame. The electric fuel pump mounts above the axle next to the diff. While unclear in the image exactly, there is something in that area which is NOT the factory electric fuel pump assembly. 

Image #3& 4 Cowl notch. This car being a 74, the notch was not hand cut as this one looks sloppier and semi circular than the early cars which where "hand cut" 

 

What do you think?  I don't want to ruin somebody's right to auction a car, but if they are on this forum and doing research then I advise answers to detailed questions.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by conkitchen

[kbmb02]

Interesting.

 

Admittedly, I’m not an expert on Tii’s (I am rebuilding/restoring one, and it’s the only Tii I’ve spend more than a few minutes with).

That said, I’m surprised none of the commenters at BaT have noticed and/or inquired. -KB

[conkitchen]

3 minutes ago, kbmb02 said:

 

That said, I’m surprised none of the commenters at BaT have noticed and/or inquired. -KB

Easy to over look by most. These are tiny details but if you know what to look for they stand out. Likely if true, the seller-who bought the car 8 months ago according to the write up did not know. Or spent the last 8 months "prepping" it for resale.  

[ray_]

That's a helluva notch! maybe a tribute notch??

 

The fuel filter is not correctly mounted neither.
 

Also the opening for the manual choke in the lower steering column trip has been plugged.

 

 

Cheers,

[ray_]

Also, Les says the car used to be black, not Taiga. 

 

And I may have just emailed the VIN to  BMW group archives info

[conkitchen]

1 hour ago, ray_ said:

.... maybe a tribute notch??

 

 

A tribute to a tii maybe 

In spite of the seller saying the car was "green" before blue and the vin# as per Ray indicates Schwarz (without a T) the little thing missed that only the most discerning eye will catch is the following. 

The thermo time control module mounted above the brake booster used a large diameter course thread screw like that used to mount the brake reservoir. This car is utilizing a self-tapping sheet metal screw which is a smaller diameter and likely because they drilled a new hole. So what? the hole would have been much larger from the factory and thus the screw being used here would not work.  

It's them little things that add up. 

 

Edited July 1, 2019 by conkitchen

[Conserv]

I would start by simply looking at the chassis number stamped into the outer lip of the right inner fender, at the cowl. I am not referring to the riveted-on metal VIN plate. Based on the miserable re-paints this car has seen, it may be partially obscured by layers of paint. If it’s fairly clearly showing 2780517, it’s going to be difficult to prosecute any claims of re-bodying. The seller has not provided a photo of the chassis number stamped into the right inner fender itself.

 

I don’t disagree with the critiques of the cowl notch, etc., but some of the photos show the original tii fuel pump and accumulator tank still in place (below), there are airbox brackets on the left inner fender, a tii clock, boxed trailing arms, etc. In short, there are also plenty of good tii indicia.

 

The BMW Group Archives report will provide a factory color. Although a seller will likely not let you sand the area surrounding the stamped-in chassis VIN, to determine if someone has welded in a VIN from another car, pulling out the rear seat or pulling off an underdash panel might provide a glimpse of original paint. If it doesn’t match the factory’s records, you might have more clues to the car’s origins.

 

I’m not yet convinced this is a “re-bodied” car. The seats, of course, are not original to the car, the color is probably not original, but I’m still seeing lots of tii evidence.

 

I would expect VIN 2780517 to have been manufactured in early December 1973. The front seats are of the 1975-76 style. Although a few very late 1974 model tii’s received the 1975-76 style seats from the factory (only because BMW extended the 1974 tii’s production well past the September 1974 introduction of all the 1975 models in order to side-step new 1975 emissions regulations), this car, manufactured late in 1973, certainly began life with “1974-only” seats. The rear seat, based on the 35 pleats and mid-‘71 through 1973 model vinyl pre-dates the car’s manufacture.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

(If you want to see a smoking gun, the last five photos below show, first three photos, a freshly re-painted post-1968 chassis with a riveted-on VIN plate and a stamped-in chassis number of a — quite rare — 1966 1600-2. The last two photos show a — quite rare — 1966 1600-2 shell, with its stamped-in chassis number excised, which just happens to be sitting in the same shop’s yard. Hmm... ?)

 

Edited July 1, 2019 by Conserv

[HarryPR]

I sold the only  tii I owned about 30 years ago, so I am definitely not an expert but, isn't that notch too close to the centerline of the car? Thought it went over the distributor.

[ray_]

Nope, harry, the notch was centered directly over the hole in the bell housing  

...BMW Group Archives says the car was originally Taiga....

 

Cheers,

[HarryPR]

13 minutes ago, ray_ said:

Nope, harry, the notch was centered directly over the hole in the bell housing  

...BMW Group Archives says the car was originally Taiga....

 

Cheers,

Thanks, Ray!

[ray_]

Just now, HarryPR said:

Thanks, Ray!

Oh yeah??

 

Come over here and say that! 

 

;-)

[02Les]

The car was for sale in the Nov '86 Roundel and was in NH. The Seller stated the car had 92k, & 6k on a rblt mtr and the colour was Black. Maybe it had been painted it's Dark Blue colour by then?

 

The car was on Craigslist Jun '18 in Mt. Pleasant, SC, for $15k, so the current Owner hasn't had it long and it looks the same now as it did last year, including the pre-'74 speedo.

[Mike Self]

10 hours ago, Conserv said:

1966 1600-2 shell, with its stamped-in chassis number excised, which just happens to be sitting in the same shop’s yard. Hmm...

Oopsie...what a coincidence!

 

mike

[conkitchen]

10 hours ago, Conserv said:

I would start by simply looking at the chassis number stamped into the outer lip of the right inner fender..........

......I don’t disagree with the critiques of the cowl notch, etc., but some of the photos show the original tii fuel pump and accumulator tank still in place (below),

 

 

This might be conjecture on my part, but if the original fuel accumulator was there, why remove it? Plus it appears to me that it is hanging a lil too low in this pic. It should tuck up behind the CV IMHO.  As for VIN stamping. There is not one image which that part of the car is not in frame with the provided photos.  At least we have a face shot of the guy in question. That is all. 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2019 by conkitchen

[jgerock]

The cowl notch in my 73tii isn't centered (with the hood latch opening). It's slightly toward the right side which is where the bellhousing access hole is located.