Lug nuts (wheel nuts) - Mahle "bottle caps' 5x13

[2002FjordBaur]

Hi forum,

 

I'm hoping there are some wheel nut (lug nut) experts out there able to clarify a query I have...

 

The Mahle alloys on my Baur have a set of rather grubby wheel nuts that the restoration shop previously put on specifically for those alloys.

However, I've always been intrigued why they have a separate collar that strangely, on some of the nuts still spins feely when the nuts are tightened to torque?

 

Anyhow, I thought I'd treat the car to a new set purchase from W&N, but comparing new to old, the new nuts have a slimmer shoulder taper? The old nuts fill the hole in the alloy where as the new ones look too slim?

 

I'm slightly concerned these new nuts are incorrect for the Mahle alloys and worst-case scenario may pull-through the wheels?

 

Does anyone have any suggestions on which is correct please?

I did check against the W&N part diagram and they are specified as correct part?

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by 2002FjordBaur

[joem52002]

Are the collars removable?  Looks like they are.

Can you clean them up and transfer to the new lug nuts?

[2002FjordBaur]

No, the collars on the old nuts are free to rotate but can't be removed?

 

[otisdog]

New W&N lugs are the correct ones.

[02Les]

W & N sells part no. 36 13 1 113 134 for both OEM alloy wheels.

BMW specified part no. 36 13 1 108 928 for the early alloys & part no. 36 13 1 113 132 for the later ('74) alloys. Which infers there was a difference.

No clue what the difference might be.

[2002FjordBaur]

So I have the correct W&N part.

36 13 1 113 134

But still intrigued by the narrow width compared to the old nuts? 

Does make me slightly nervous ? 

[golf73]

@Conserv has these wheels, maybe he'll chime in as to what type of nut he has installed

[Conserv]

8 hours ago, golf73 said:

@Conserv has these wheels, maybe he'll chime in as to what type of nut he has installed

 

I run the Febi-Bilstein versions of the factory alloy rim lug nuts on both my ‘76 and my ‘73, although they have late and early OEM alloys, respectively.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-e10-2002-Lug-Bolt-for-Alloy-Wheel-x16-Febi-BILSTEIN-nut-lugnut-rim-lugbolt/352722960066?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D7b4a52bc692d4445a6c49ef2d134d4a9%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D352722960066%26itm%3D352722960066%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2481888&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A61505185-da85-11e9-b6d9-74dbd1802419|parentrq%3A475adfc516d0a9cadb834ea9ff981068|iid%3A1

 

There is no extra conical washer. Are those some form of “wobble nuts” on the original poster’s car? Whether yes or no, I’d probably jettison them fast. If the conical washer still spins after the nut is tightened, that suggests to me that the nut has bottomed out, and is tightening against the stud, rather than against the rim. That sounds wrong, and quite dangerous!

 

My question, nonetheless, was: were those odd-ball lug nuts installed by someone who (a.) didn’t know WTF they were doing, or (b.) understood exactly why they were using such odd nuts, e.g., the bolt holes were elongated or otherwise damaged?

 

Here’s the page from RealOEM.com, showing the BMW part number (Item 7, ending in -3132) for the late OEM alloys I run on my ‘76.

 

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=2215-USA-04-1976-114-BMW-2002&diagId=36_0363

 

And here’s the same page from RealOEM.com, showing the same BMW part number (Item 3, ending in -3132) for the early OEM alloys I run on my ‘73.

 

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=2583-USA-10-1972-114-BMW-2002tii&diagId=36_0363

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Conserv

[golf73]

What a conundrum for this Spongebob Squaretail(R) Baur with Mahle Bottle Top Alloys in the UK!

 

Conserv to the rescue... 36 13 1 113 132

[2002FjordBaur]

Thanks for all the advice - much appreciated!

 

i’ll research further. The guy that recommissioned the car is very knowledgable regarding the 2002 so there was a valid reason why he fitted those collared versions to my alloys - that’s what concerns me - he knew what he was doing! 

 

I’ll check the holes for enlargement, but I don’t think they are? I’ll also call the mechanic to check.

 

All very intriguing!

[iinca]

those are larry'... plus they are rusty.... bin 'em or take them back to your master 2002 mechanic

 

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by iinca

[Conserv]

5 hours ago, 2002FjordBaur said:

Thanks for all the advice - much appreciated!

 

i’ll research further. The guy that recommissioned the car is very knowledgable regarding the 2002 so there was a valid reason why he fitted those collared versions to my alloys - that’s what concerns me - he knew what he was doing! 

 

I’ll check the holes for enlargement, but I don’t think they are? I’ll also call the mechanic to check.

 

All very intriguing!

 

I do believe that, with their captive conical washers, those are a form of “wobble nuts”.  Wobble nuts are intended to be used when your car’s lug nut pattern (a.k.a., PCD) does not match the rims’ lug nut pattern. For instance, you want to run 4x98 PCD rims on your 4x100 car.

 

Wobble nuts are, at very best, “controversial”. Yes, one particular brand of wobble nut was approved by the TUV for a very particular use in a particular application. Rim manufacturers want nothing to do with them. With a zillion rim choices in most sizes, e.g., 4x100, you don’t need to force wrong PCD rims on cars.

 

But why would you use wobble nuts to mount 4x100 rims (the late OEM alloys) on a 4x100 car? And why would you use an oddball lug nut when the factory recommended nut was available? I would not use a wobble nut. Period. But I believe that tire and wheel safety are paramount.... ?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Conserv

[Conserv]

n/t (duplicate posting)

Edited September 19, 2019 by Conserv

[otisdog]

Steve has a good point...lug nuts bottomed out on the stud if the taper is still spinning. Probably should take a close look at the studs, or, better yet, replace the studs.

[Einspritz]

12 hours ago, Conserv said:

My question, nonetheless, was: were those odd-ball lug nuts installed by someone who (a.) didn’t know WTF they were doing, or (b.) understood exactly why they were using such odd nuts, e.g., the bolt holes were elongated or otherwise damaged?

 

I seem to remember "back in the day" (the 80's) these were used on BBS / aftermarket rims so that the lug nut would not score or wear the rim. "Some" rims had steel inserts in the holes and you would not need these, but for others which did not, you used these to prevent undue wear. IIRC, they were the "fancy expensive" lug nuts.