Introducing my 69 Granada (photos)

[thisisjuan]

 

Hi! I’ve had this car for several weeks now, but I didn’t want to post until I had all the paperwork sorted out. That’s done now so here it goes.

Yes, I bought that 69 Granada from New Hampshire that some of you may have seen pop up in the Classifieds back in July. Same car that someone in MA was trying to flip for about 13k but couldn’t, and ended up selling to NH where they also tried to flip it for around 11k but couldn’t either because of the shitty interior and, more importantly, lack of a title. I took a chance on the car as it appeared to have spent most of its life in California (confirmed now after going through all the history in receipts that it seems to have been a one-owner car until about 2014 or 2015, when it changed hands and was eventually sold to the East Coast), and appeared to be pretty complete and fairly unmolested for its age. I made a couple of trips to my local DMV before even making an offer, just to understand the chances of being able (or not) to get a title in my name. It was also helpful for negotiating the price. I gathered the necessary documentation and was able to register the car and go through with the title application. I will say that, for a car bought sight unseen, I didn’t get any surprises. I received about 80 photos before making an offer, so I had a pretty good sense of what I was getting. When I finally got the car delivered, I just felt sorry for it. No surprises, like I said (althought some things looked worse than on the photos), but I was struck by how little TLC it had received in the last few years. I had dug deep on the internet to find photos of the car about 5 years ago and it just looked run down compared to that. Like it fell in the hands of people who just didn’t care. Last owner only had it for a literal couple of months. Car was dirty, interior was a mess; it was running strong but using all sorts of wrong parts and fluids. Electrical was a mess with nothing on the dashboard working. Just a lot of neglect. I left the car at my buddy’s shop where it was completely gone through. We tackled motor and interior first as they both needed some serious love. All fluids were drained, all electrical connections replaced, motor mounts replaced, etc. etc. Then also fixed electrical in the process. Now speedo, wipers, emergency flashers and radio all work (none worked when I got the car). After getting it, I realized the car had the wrong (later model) front seats. Rookie mistake; I had seen the seats in photos and didn't realize they were from a later model. Thanks to this site I was able to find a pair of earlier seats in original black upholstery (yes, technically not correct since this is a very early 69, built in Sept. 68, so it should have no headrests, but definitely a thousand times closer and better than what it had before); threw in a new carpet kit and boy now it’s a different car inside. My buddy also fixed the center console and added a more appropriate-looking radio with Bluetooth. We also replaced the American turn signal lenses with the flat Euro lenses that I believe would be correct for this model year. The car is nowhere near perfect. There is some rust to be addressed, and it will be down the road (mainly what's visible in the ad photos; the rest is pretty solid). But I wanted to get it to a point where I could drive it, enjoy it, get to know it (I’m not new to classic cars but definitely new to 2002s) and then later on send it in for additional repairs. I've only driven it a couple of times so far because it hasn't stopped raining in Miami, but I'm glad of how things turned out and I certainly love the way it drives. I had little faith in this car in the beginning, but I saw potential and, with a lot of help from my friend, we have tried to bring that out. QUESTION FOR THE EXPERTS: One thing I'm curious about is the fact that the speedo is in km/h. I have different versions on this: Some people say this might be a Canadian model; the Craigslist ad said it was a 'euro spec;' BMW tells me this was delivered to Hoffman Motors in New York City (like I believe all US models were at that time, port of entry). Can someone chime in on this? I wonder if it's the original speedo? Could it be the original speedo if this was indeed a US model car? I appreciate the feedback. If you've read this far, thank you! Here are photos of the car as it sits today. If you want some before photos check out the ad hyperlinked a few paragraphs above.

Edited October 12, 2019 by thisisjuan

[Jeffinslaw]

I like the color! Interior looks nice as well. I'm in the same boat, my '02 needs some work before I can start driving it regularly. 

 

-Jeffinslaw

[dlhoovler]

Beautiful car! Sounds like you'll give it the TLC it deserves, but it looks great already. Welcome!

 

-Dave

[Mike Self]

We can easily clear up whether it's a US or Euro car:  what's the VIN? If it begins with 166xxxx it's a US spec car.  If the VIN is above about 16627xx and below 1664760 it's a "first series" '69 assembled prior to 1 January 1969 before new Federal regs took effect--which is probable, given the lack of side reflectors.  Other clues that it's a first series '69: dash tray without the ribs (not installed until about March/April '69), a smooth center steering wheel hub, black plastic inside door handles and no VIN plate atop the steering column.  An e-mail off to BMW Classic will give you the exact assembly date, plus original color and where it was delivered.  That might clear up the US or Canada original delivery.  

 

The original wheel covers should not have a round hole for the valve stem, only a small cutout in one of the oval perimeter slots.  The wheel cover centers were also painted silver, not polished. 

 

Looks like you found a really nice car, and it responded to your loving ministrations--looks great.  As I'm sure you've gathered, the FAQ is a great (probably the greatest) source of 2002 info anywhere.  Lots of hard-core owners who are happy to share knowledge.  Welcome to the fraternity/sorority.

 

mike (who also owns a '69)   

Edited October 12, 2019 by mike
update

[Mike Self]

Revision of the above post--site wouldn't let me edit so apologies for the seemingly double post...

 

An e-mail off to BMW Classic will give you the exact assembly date, plus original color and where it was delivered.  That might clear up the US or Canada original delivery.  We can easily clear up whether it's a US or Euro car:  The VIN (1663246) indicates it's US spec car, and a very early '69, as they began at around 16627xx.  The VIN's below 1664760 so it's a "first series" '69 assembled prior to 1 January 1969 before new Federal regs took effect--which is probable, given the lack of side reflectors.  Other clues that it's a first series '69: dash tray without the ribs (not installed until about March/April '69), a smooth center steering wheel hub, black plastic inside door handles and no VIN plate atop the steering column. It also has the two chamber brake fluid reservoir, and the separate clutch hydraulic fluid reservoir.  Basically the pre January first '69s are identical to the '68s in all these little details.

 

The original wheel covers should not have a round hole for the valve stem, only a small cutout in one of the oval perimeter slots.  The wheel cover centers were also painted silver, not polished. 

 

Looks like you found a really nice car, and it responded to your loving ministrations--looks great.  As I'm sure you've gathered, the FAQ is a great (probably the greatest) source of 2002 info anywhere.  Lots of hard-core owners who are happy to share knowledge.  Welcome to the fraternity/sorority.

 

mike (who also owns a '69)   

 

PS--my '69's inner rear wheel arches were rusted like yours; a couple of hours and 80-100 feet of MIG wire and they're as sound as can be!

Edited October 12, 2019 by mike

[iinca]

wow. looks awesome now. good job! It's a keeper for sure

 

I remember this car. Listed forever...NOBODY would touch it!

 

Pretty red color. Looks better than any Granada I've seen lately

[Conserv]

Congratulations: it looks loved! Wow!

 

Great job bringing it back on track after its tough 4-5 years!

 

”Delivery to Hoffman Motors, New York City” represents legal delivery of ownership from BMW AG to the sole U.S. importer, Hoffman Motors Corp, which was domiciled in New York. It says nothing about the U.S. Port of Entry (POE), which was probably L.A. or San Francisco if this was originally a California car. U.S. cars coming through the New York area had a Port Elizabeth, New Jersey, POE. Note also that the “delivery” date was generally before the car left Germany, as Hoffman assumed responsibility for the car during its transit. Most of these “delivery” dates are within a week of the manufacturing date. Delivery from the factory to the U.S. dealership generally took 6 to 12 weeks depending on ship schedules, weather, U.S. POE (particularly East versus West Coast), Panama Canal schedules (for West Coast POE vehicles), car carrier schedules, distance from POE to U.S. dealership, etc.

 

The car likely would not pass U.S. Customs with a km/h speedometer.  But it could have been swapped in at any time. It certainly suggests a possible Canadian tour of duty, or was the car used in Europe later in life, and the km/h speedometer retained for sentimental reasons? ?

 

The first thing I would do is pull out the instrument cluster — an easy job — and examine the date on the rear of the speedometer head. If it’s dated after the car’s manufacturing date of September 13, 1968, i.e., October 1968 or later, it was clearly added post-factory. But if it’s dated on or just before the car’s manufacturing date, i.e., August or September 1968, it could theoretically be an original speedometer. How to explain? One wild-ass theory — that doesn’t conflict with legal delivery through Hoffman Motors — is that the car was delivered through the official European Delivery Program (which still went through Hoffman Motors of New York City), equipped with a km/h speedometer while it was driven in Europe, the km/h speedometer was swapped out for U.S. Customs purposes, but retained, and swapped back in for whatever reason, after passing U.S. Customs. But let’s first see the date on that speedometer before we get into the wild speculation... ?

(I wouldn’t make any apologies for those headrest seats: only 3 in 100 ‘02 people would even recognize that ‘69 models before January-ish 1969 had no headrests! And, if you ever come across some no-headrest backrests, so much the better! ?)

 

Again. Great job!
 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited October 12, 2019 by Conserv

[02Les]

No clue on the km/h speedo, but it was there when the car was on Ebay Aug 2015. It showed 79k km even back then.

The Ebay Seller (2000m5) was Evan Esterman of BimmerBros fame and he stated it was an older repaint and a two-Owner car. The CA black licence plate would (I believe) indicate the car was first registered in CA and stayed there until 2015. The Craigslist Seller in MA (Apr-May 2019) bought the car from Evan in 2015.

Pics from 2015 auction.

 

[thisisjuan]

10 hours ago, mike said:

Revision of the above post--site wouldn't let me edit so apologies for the seemingly double post...

 

An e-mail off to BMW Classic will give you the exact assembly date, plus original color and where it was delivered.  That might clear up the US or Canada original delivery.  We can easily clear up whether it's a US or Euro car:  The VIN (1663246) indicates it's US spec car, and a very early '69, as they began at around 16627xx.  The VIN's below 1664760 so it's a "first series" '69 assembled prior to 1 January 1969 before new Federal regs took effect--which is probable, given the lack of side reflectors.  Other clues that it's a first series '69: dash tray without the ribs (not installed until about March/April '69), a smooth center steering wheel hub, black plastic inside door handles and no VIN plate atop the steering column. It also has the two chamber brake fluid reservoir, and the separate clutch hydraulic fluid reservoir.  Basically the pre January first '69s are identical to the '68s in all these little details.

 

The original wheel covers should not have a round hole for the valve stem, only a small cutout in one of the oval perimeter slots.  The wheel cover centers were also painted silver, not polished. 

 

Looks like you found a really nice car, and it responded to your loving ministrations--looks great.  As I'm sure you've gathered, the FAQ is a great (probably the greatest) source of 2002 info anywhere.  Lots of hard-core owners who are happy to share knowledge.  Welcome to the fraternity/sorority.

 

mike (who also owns a '69)   

 

PS--my '69's inner rear wheel arches were rusted like yours; a couple of hours and 80-100 feet of MIG wire and they're as sound as can be!

Thank you for all these references and thank you for the warm welcome. Looking forward to learning from everyone here.

Date of manufacture is Sept. 13th, 1968. 
Date of delivery is Sept. 23rd, 1968.
Original color Granada paint code 023.
 

Edited October 12, 2019 by thisisjuan
Adding information

[thisisjuan]

10 hours ago, iinca said:

wow. looks awesome now. good job! It's a keeper for sure

 

I remember this car. Listed forever...NOBODY would touch it!

 

Pretty red color. Looks better than any Granada I've seen lately

THIS EXACTLY. I remember no one to touch the car with a 10-foot pole. Made me even more uneasy about the whole thing. 

[thisisjuan]

2 hours ago, Conserv said:

Congratulations: it looks loved! Wow!

 

Great job bringing it back on track after its tough 4-5 years!

 

”Delivery to Hoffman Motors, New York City” represents legal delivery of ownership from BMW AG to the sole U.S. importer, Hoffman Motors Corp, which was domiciled in New York. It says nothing about the U.S. Port of Entry (POE), which was probably L.A. or San Francisco if this was originally a California car. U.S. cars coming through the New York area had a Port Elizabeth, New Jersey, POE. Note also that the “delivery” date was generally before the car left Germany, as Hoffman assumed responsibility for the car during its transit. Most of these “delivery” dates are within a week of the manufacturing date. Delivery from the factory to the U.S. dealership generally took 6 to 12 weeks depending on ship schedules, weather, U.S. POE (particularly East versus West Coast), Panama Canal schedules (for West Coast POE vehicles), car carrier schedules, distance from POE to U.S. dealership, etc.

 

The car likely would not pass U.S. Customs with a km/h speedometer.  But it could have been swapped in at any time. It certainly suggests a possible Canadian tour of duty, or was the car used in Europe later in life, and the km/h speedometer retained for sentimental reasons? ?

 

The first thing I would do is pull out the instrument cluster — an easy job — and examine the date on the rear of the speedometer head. If it’s dated after the car’s manufacturing date of September 13(?), 1968, i.e., October 1968 or later, it was clearly added post-factory. But if it’s dated on or just before the car’s manufacturing date, i.e., August or September 1968, it could theoretically be an original speedometer. How to explain? One wild-ass theory — that doesn’t conflict with legal delivery through Hoffman Motors — is that the car was delivered through the official European Delivery Program (which still went through Hoffman Motors of New York City), driven in Europe, the speedometer was swapped out for U.S. Customs purposes, retained, and swapped back in for whatever reason, after passing U.S. Customs. But let’s first see the date on that speedometer before we get into the wild speculation... ?

(I wouldn’t make any apologies for those headrest seats: only 3 in 100 ‘02 people would even recognize that ‘69 models before January-ish 1969 had no headrests! And, if you ever come across some no-headrest backrests, so much the better! ?)

 

Again. Great job!
 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Thank you Steve and thank you for all the tips and knowledge shared. I feel like I'm reading a 2002 encyclopedia when I read your comments, so thank for you making me more knowledgeable!
You said it: the car is loved now, and it makes a ton of difference.
Good point on looking at the date on the back of the speedo.
If any parts (besides the seats haha) look to be incorrect please do point it out! I'm currently looking for the short silver wiper arms if anyone out there has a pair.

[thisisjuan]

1 hour ago, 02Les said:

No clue on the km/h speedo, but it was there when the car was on Ebay Aug 2015. It showed 79k km even back then.

The Ebay Seller (2000m5) was Evan Esterman of BimmerBros fame and he stated it was an older repaint and a two-Owner car. The CA black licence plate would (I believe) indicate the car was first registered in CA and stayed there until 2015. The Craigslist Seller in MA (Apr-May 2019) bought the car from Evan in 2015.

Pics from 2015 auction.

 

Wow thank you so much for sharing these! Yes, At the beginning of my research and trying to background check the car I found Evan Estermann and got in touch with him regarding the car (quite creepy of me). I also have a screenshot of when he put the car up for sale back then.
One of the many invoices is for a respray back in I believe 2015 which 4500 dollars. Total ripoff because there are bubbles in a few places only a few years later.
The speedo evidently has been stuck and not working for several years because the odometer is still at 78.5 (now it's working and starting to count kilometers again). 
Some of invoices from the past show it to have 70k kilometers while others very soon after say 170k km; I'm more partial to thinking it's over 100k km.
I've also been able to find the daughter of the man who owned the car for most of his life; she even has a photo on FB with the car. I've reached out but I don't even think she's seen the message. Hopefully she'll write back one day.

[Conserv]

49 minutes ago, thisisjuan said:

Thank you Steve and thank you for all the tips and knowledge shared. I feel like I'm reading a 2002 encyclopedia when I read your comments, so thank for you making me more knowledgeable!
You said it: the car is loved now, and it makes a ton of difference.
Good point on looking at the date on the back of the speedo.
If any parts (besides the seats haha) look to be incorrect please do point it out! I'm currently looking for the short silver wiper arms if anyone out there has a pair.

Based on your fixes to date, Juan, it doesn’t look like you need much help from us!  The flush front turn signals, for instance, U.S.-spec until ca. 1970, are spot on.

 

How does the engine compartment look? Just tryin’ to help... ?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited October 12, 2019 by Conserv

[TobyB]

That's a BMW 2002.

 

This is a Grenada.

 

You made the right choice.

 

t

[thisisjuan]

hahah, I should probably add "2002" to the thread title huh.