Anyone know this car? Further info appreciated

[stimpy]

Hi there folks,

 

Haven't been on here for a long while and seems my account has been deleted! Had to re sign up... 

 

So, my uncle who spends a good amount of time in the States has seen a 1600 he likes the look of. Just wondering if anyone has any further info on the car here at all?.Here's the link:

 

https://classiccars.com/listings/view/1272458/1971-bmw-2002-for-sale-in-okc-oklahoma-73114

 

Thanks in advance..

[Mike Self]

By its VIN it's a US spec "modell 71" car, so should have a 1991 cc engine, not 1533 (that was never an M10 displacement AFAIK).  Seller clims the engine is "original"--if so the engine number should match the VIN. 

 

Don't think black was an offered color on roundies (I've never seen an authentic black one) and I can guarantee they didn't come with a white interior--ever.  Beltline molding is missing, as is the knee molding.  So if your uncle is a stickler for originality, this one isn't, although quite nice.  

 

That's all I know...

 

mike

[114TYP]

I guess it's a typo and real displacement is 1573 (accurate for 1.6 liter, BMW 1600 as the OP posted). Not sure about euro vs US spec. but my 1971 (early)1600 doesn't have a knee trim, nor should it have one. Not sure about this one, seeing as it doesn't have short center console.

 

Looking at the pictures and trying to profile the previous owner, I would imagine him/her to be the kind to put 2002 badge on a 1600. As said, the restoration is not done perfectly per se, but might be a good driver car and one to enjoy.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by saoirse

[NYNick]

Smells a little funny to me. Get pix of all 3 VIN's.

[JohnS]

Always cracks me up when I see a blue coil installed with the ballast resistor...  But what do I know

[Conserv]

VIN 2573195 is a U.S.-spec 1971 model 2002, probably manufactured in April or May 1971. It was a 2-liter car from the factory, as Mike said, despite the 1602 grilles it’s currently wearing. From a technical standpoint, and apart from model year — and as Mike already pointed out — it is a Modell 71, signifying it originally reflected the mid-year upgrade that occurred in April 1971. Thus, it came with long-tail rear bumper (still present), bumpers with rub strips (still present), knee mouldings (gone), long console (always black originally), 12-fuse electricals, etc.

 

To Mike’s point, it’s doubtful the black exterior is original. I’ve seen Euro-spec early 1600-2’s and Euro-spec round taillight 2002’s in factory black (Schwarz), but I’ve not yet seen a factory black U.S.-spec round taillight 2002. BMW Group Archives (info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com) can confirm the actual build date and factory exterior color if you simply email them the car’s VIN and request their data.

 

When you find out the exterior color, you can largely figure out the original interior color. BMW roundels on ‘02 headrests scream “recovered seats” to me... ?

 

That said, the black re-paint looks fairly comprehensive and not like the “way below Maaco” Malaga repaint applied to my factory Inka ‘73!  Add back the missing beltline and knee mouldings, lose the headrest roundels, and paint the console black with SEM paint, and you’d have a respectable-looking, if non-factory 2002!
 

Regards,

 

Steve

Oh yeah: upgrade the front grilles from 1602 style to 2002 style. For the side grilles, this simply means adding the black anodized covers — still available from BMW — to seven slats on each side. For the center grille, where 2002 slats are themselves black anodized, you could use black tape if you didn’t want to swap out the grille.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Conserv

[TobyB]

I like the look.

 

It seems a bit expensive to me, but it's priced at what it would cost to do a really

nice paint job these days, so:

 

IF it looks as good underneath as it does on top, why not?

Personally, I'd crawl all over it, as the trunk has enough flags to trigger the

'what's it really like?'

flag 

(matte paint, vent tube unhooked, carpet obviously done quickly)

 

but the dash matches the fuses which match the year, etc etc etc

 

that it doesn't immediately scare me off.

 

t

[Jimmy]

5 hours ago, NYNick said:

Smells a little funny to me. Get pix of all 3 VIN's.

 

I agree. This looks like it could be a so-called "rebody" which in various forms is essentially passing off a car that isn't actually the car represented by the title. In other words, a VIN swap. Chop shops do this. Why would a 2002 be "restored" with 1600-2/1602 parts? 

[stimpy]

Thanks folks! 

 

To me it didn't smell right straight away with the 2002 listing but 1600.I'm in the Uk and we and Europe certainly had shwartz options in that year but I doubt this is it's original colour.

 

Without seeing the car in the flesh it is impossible to be able tell if they did a good job or not on the restoration but it looks great in the pics like so many.... Personally, the Bmw roundels printed on the headrests would count me out - hehe...

 

I think for that price and an incorrect engine etc that would count us out.

 

Thanks again everyone.

[Jimmy]

6 minutes ago, stimpy said:

Thanks folks! 

 

To me it didn't smell right straight away with the 2002 listing but 1600.I'm in the Uk and we and Europe certainly had shwartz options in that year but I doubt this is it's original colour.

 

Without seeing the car in the flesh it is impossible to be able tell if they did a good job or not on the restoration but it looks great in the pics like so many.... Personally, the Bmw roundels printed on the headrests would count me out - hehe...

 

I think for that price and an incorrect engine etc that would count us out.

 

Thanks again everyone.

 

Oh God.

 

Seriously, do not buy a car listed in the states without having someone you trust personally verify that you are actually getting what is being represented. An alarming number of what I'll call "off-brand" collector car websites are scams in their entirety, often featuring pictures and descriptions of completely different cars, or listings of cars that are not actually for sale by the real owner, with photos and descriptions stolen from previous ads. 

 

Opportunists here have identified the BMW 2002 and air-cooled Porsche market as currencies of their own to be speculated upon and traded in. Even when the deal is "legit," high prices on BAT leave a lot of room for scammers to misrepresent and flip turds at what would be plausible prices if the cars were really what they said they were. Don't be someone's sucker.

[02Les]

It was on Ebay last month. Did not meet its reserve.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1971-BMW-2002/254378064271?hash=item3b3a1d398f:g:~m4AAOSwgGJdlgwe

 

Seller is Santiago Sports & Classics of Piedmont-Oklahoma City, OK.

http://www.santiagosc.com/inventory

Edited November 27, 2019 by 02Les