tii Warm Up Regulator Q

[saaron]

I was adjusting the warm up regulator earlier.  I was following the Macartney book procedure.  

 

I noticed a couple of things:

>As I unwound the top nut, it looked like the top hat was turning as well.  That doesn't seem correct, does it?  In other words, the threaded rod the adjusting nut and top hat are on was turning as well.  

>I drove the car about 15 min to warm it up - checking where the top hat ends up when the car is warm.  The top hat never really clears the lever (at least not that I can tell), even though the lever is on it's stop.  

 

The warm up regulator seems to function - it raises as the car warms up.  There is a gap - probably the 2-3 mm that is expected, from the enrichment lever to the stop when the engine is cold.  It is 45 degrees today.  Like I said, when the engine is warmed up, the lever has moved to be down against the stop.  Maybe if it was warmer out, and the engine was hotter, the top hat would clear the lever?

 

The car drives fine - idles higher when warming up, and gradually lowering to about 1,000 rpm once the lever is on the stop.  

 

The revolving top hat/threaded rod concerns me, though.  I wonder if the top hat and threaded rod it is on have fused over time?

 

Any thoughts / advice / confirming I'm not crazy, are appreciated.  

 

Scott

[JsnPpp]

You have to have two wrenches on it - one on the top hat, and one on the lock nut. The top hat should then turn on it's own. Both are 10mm. I use a thin 10mm bike brake wrench on the bottom one.

 

Adjustment requires a fully extended (warmed up) regulator. There is a small allen set screw that holds it in place.. don't recall the size but it's small... ?

 

The cone should extend 10mm above the outer rim when the engine is fully warmed. However, YMMV. I recently had mine apart and found slightly different adjustment was required to fully block air flow when warmed. Its tricky on the car but still tricky on the bench b/c you have to keep it hot to do the adjustment. Not overly hard, just like other things, takes time.

 

Jason

[JsnPpp]

There is a thread on this where Jim posted an excellent photo of air flow in the WUR. Helps a ton to visualize.

 

TO check if you even need to adjust it, get the car warmed up, then pull the hose and pull a vacuum on it to see if it is excessively easy.. I believe there always will be *some* air permitted.

Jason

[PaulTWinterton]

36 minutes ago, saaron said:

top hat was turning as well.

 

The top hat has 2 flat sides.  I use a modifed open end 10mm wrench to hold the hat while using another 10mm wrench to loosen or tighten the nut against the top hat. By modified I mean flattened, more skinny to fit better with 2nd wrench.

 

36 minutes ago, saaron said:

The top hat never really clears the lever 

 

It should, even just a little.  

 

If you have followed the procedure correctly the WUR may not be extending to the full 10mm height.   This could mean that you are still getting some auxiliary air into the system once the engine is fully warm. 

[saaron]

Thanks, guys.  A few follow up Qs:

 

16 hours ago, JsnPpp said:

There is a small allen set screw that holds it in place.. don't recall the size but it's small... ?

Is the set screw on the top hat?  I had not heard that before.  

 

16 hours ago, JsnPpp said:

then pull the hose and pull a vacuum on it to see if it is excessively easy.. I believe there always will be *some* air permitted.

Do you mean the hose that goes into the bottom of the warm up regulator?  Is that just air going through that hose, or is it coolant?  

 

The car sat for some pretty long stretches over the summer - could that have impacted the situation?  It really hasn't sat that much the entire 30+ years I've owned it.  

 

Last Q - should that whole theaded rod the top hat is on turn?  I'm still not clear on that.  I thought the rod should stay put, and you are just running the top hat up and down the rod.  I guess I didn't think the whole rod would turn.  

 

I remember that thread of Jim Gerock's...I need to try to find it.  

 

Thanks again.

 

Scott

[PaulTWinterton]

2 hours ago, saaron said:

Is the set screw on the top hat?  I had not heard that before.

Here's a pic with the set screw in the piston ( elevated to 10mm at 175°F), albeit a little blurry.

 

2 hours ago, saaron said:

and you are just running the top hat up and down the rod.  I guess I didn't think the whole rod would turn.  

 

It's not critical if the whole internal assembly rotates, but normally it would not rotate with the top hat.  The top hat is basically an enlarged nut meant to depress the enrichment lever when the piston is recessed.

 

Having said that, I think your top hat may be seizing on the rod.  The tip of the rod is square, so use some penetrating oil on the rod, grip the tip with visegrips and work the top hat free using a 10mm wrench.

 

 

2 hours ago, saaron said:

Do you mean the hose that goes into the bottom of the warm up regulator?  Is that just air going through that hose, or is it coolant?  

 

Bottom hoses are coolant, correct. Top "rear" hose is the auxiliary air hose going to the plenum. Blowing air into that hose is the way to test the seal on the WUR when the piston is elevated.  Example:

 

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by PaulTWinterton

[saaron]

OK, great info!  Thanks Paul.  I wonder if the WUR just is sticky from the car sitting so long (while the body work was getting done).  

 

I’ll have to tighten that set screw.  And adjust it so the top hat clears the enrichment lever when the engine is warmed up.  

 

May wait a bit as the weather is not great for warming the engine up, lol.  Car is running fine, so I’ll tackle it on one of those freaky warm winter days, if we have one.  

 

Thanks again,

 

Scott

[PaulTWinterton]

2 hours ago, saaron said:

I’ll have to tighten that set screw.  And adjust it so the top hat clears the enrichment lever when the engine is warmed up.

 

I don't think you need to worry about the set screw.  It's probably ok.  

 

Pictures of the top hat, piston height and enrichment lever (stop) position when cold and hot would be good to see.  Maybe nothing needs to be adjusted, other than freeing-up your top hat on the shaft.

[saaron]

18 hours ago, PaulTWinterton said:

Pictures of the top hat, piston height and enrichment lever (stop) position when cold and hot would be good to see.  Maybe nothing needs to be adjusted, other than freeing-up your top hat on the shaft.

 

I am a little concerned if that threaded rod and the internal assembly could turn.  Occasionally I drive the car for hours at a time, and there has to be a lot of vibration going on.  I wouldn't want that assembly or the rod to be turning a bit via 5 hours of vibration.  Maybe that would never happen.  

 

I hear your points.  I will return to this when I get a weather break.  Whenever that may be.  

 

Thanks, Paul and Jason.

 

Scott

[PaulTWinterton]

12 minutes ago, saaron said:

I am a little concerned if that threaded rod and the internal assembly could turn.

 

Confirm that there is a nut above the top hat and it is tightened.  If it was missing or loose the top hat could rotate up and fall off.  But that's not your case because the top hat seems to be frozen to the shaft.

 

So...

 

Don't worry - be happy.  The assembly is NOT turning by itself and if it did it is of no consequence. ?

[saaron]

 

 

22 hours ago, PaulTWinterton said:

Confirm that there is a nut above the top hat and it is tightened. 

 

Yes, there is the lock nut on the shaft above the top hat, and it is tightened onto the top hat.  I think you are 100% correct that the top hat is frozen to the shaft.  

 

It's about 35 degrees in my garage, so I'm not going to fool with it.  Today my son and I are going to try our hand at paintless dent removal - his GLI has a spot that needs work.  

 

Thanks again - huge help, Paul.

 

Scott

[saaron]

On 1/1/2020 at 4:41 PM, JsnPpp said:

The cone should extend 10mm above the outer rim when the engine is fully warmed. However, YMMV. I recently had mine apart and found slightly different adjustment was required to fully block air flow when warmed. Its tricky on the car but still tricky on the bench b/c you have to keep it hot to do the adjustment. Not overly hard, just like other things, takes time.

 

What are the steps to taking the warm up regulator off the pump?  Do I have to take an intake runner or two off?  

 

I agree that it would be easier to work on it if it was off the car.  

 

I'd like to get a closer look at it, and test it to see what it is doing.  At least at some point.

 

Scott

 

 

 

 

[tomphot]

I didn't take the runners off of mine  It's a tight fit but you can get it done.  Go ahead and change out that radiator hose while you have it off,  I have 2 WURs, I tested them both in boiling water and neither was right.  I sent the worse one off to get get rebuilt and all is well now.  

[saaron]

1 hour ago, tomphot said:

I didn't take the runners off of mine  It's a tight fit but you can get it done.  Go ahead and change out that radiator hose while you have it off,  I have 2 WURs, I tested them both in boiling water and neither was right.  I sent the worse one off to get get rebuilt and all is well now.  

 

Good to hear you got it sorted.  

 

One of the hoses is for coolant - do you drain the coolant first?  I'm assuming it would be a geyser if I just detached that hose.  

 

Scott

[PaulTWinterton]

1 hour ago, tomphot said:

I sent the worse one off to get get rebuilt and all is well now.  

 

Hello Tomphot,

 

Can you give us details of the malfunctions and what they did to fix them.  AFAIK, there is no fix for the wax motors.  They either work, work poorly or they don't work at all.   And they are not available, unless there is a secret stash somewhere.  

 

What was the repair cost if I may ask?

 

Thanks,  Paul