EU chassis swaps?

[Swiss 2002Tii]

Here's a puzzle, this Tii is claimed to be 11 production units younger than my '72 Tii, and seems to have started life as a "roundie": 

 

https://www.autoscout24.ch/de/d/bmw-2002-limousine-oldtimer?utm_campaign=lower_funnel_ch_de&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=criteo&vehid=7429725

 

 

My theory:

Late in the production cycle in '75-76 BMW produced 1502 models that were a cost-reduced version.  They can be picked up relatively cheaply in the EU.  Based on the many non-Tii discrepancies in this chassis (e.g, square tail lights, late-model nose, snorkle, missing cut to view the timing ball, etc...)  It looks like someone might have taken the Tii motor (and VIN plate?)  from the earlier rusty Tii and installed them in a later car.

 

Theories?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Swiss 2002Tii
spelling

[Conserv]

17 hours ago, Swiss 2002Tii said:

Here's a puzzle, this Tii is claimed to be 11 production units younger than my '72 Tii, and seems to have started life as a "roundie": 

 

https://www.autoscout24.ch/de/d/bmw-2002-limousine-oldtimer?utm_campaign=lower_funnel_ch_de&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=criteo&vehid=7429725

 

It looks like someone might have taken the Tii motor (and VIN plate?)  from the earlier rusty Tii and installed them in a later car...

 

Yes it does! How did they handle the “chassis VIN”, the VIN stamped directly into the outer edge of the right inner fender? I believe a common technique with re-bodies is to excise this section from the old (usually wrecked or rusted out) chassis and insert it into the new chassis.

 

Below, the excised chassis VIN of a rare 1966 1600-2, discovered coincidentally on a later chassis at the same shop as the “de-commissioned” ‘66.... ??

Oddly, the new car does not appear to have the relay rack found on square taillight cars, but perhaps the round taillight “rack-less” section of inner fender was transferred over with the airbox brackets.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by Conserv

[dlacey]

looks like a shell change, its got a 220kmh 'non cross-hair' speedo..cant see a clock on the dash...

 

in switzerland?? land of rules and procedure??

[Mike Self]

What's the motor number?  With those plastic runners, it would appear to be a fairly early 72 or a late 71 (tii's were sold in Europe in 1971, before they came to the US).  Interestingly, whomever did the swap installed the tii-unique air cleaner bracket (if it's bolted in, that ain't stock) onto the left inner fender, but they didn't lower the battery--that's a dead giveaway that the body shell didn't start out as a tii...not to mention the snorkel nose...

 

And one other thing...squarelight cars had their rear "2002" badge mounted on the curved section of the rear body panel, just below the trunk lid; the backs of those badges were curved to fit the curved sheet metal.  This one has the badge mounted on the flat section of the panel, below the trim strip and it's laying flat, meaning that it came from a roundie body...

 

mike

Edited March 16, 2020 by mike

[TobyB]

There aren't really enough pictures, but I don't see enough evidence of a nose and tail change

to think it didn't get a re-VIN.

 

Certainly wouldn't pay asking for it without a LOT more investigation.

 

t

 

[Swiss 2002Tii]

4 hours ago, dlacey said:

in switzerland?? land of rules and procedure??

!! I hadn't noticed!  I assumed it was a German sale.

I doubt this would pass MOT in my town. They have a specialist for each car type; he would spot these discrepancies.  I am surprised this is for sale in CH!  That VIN swap could get you a lot of trouble.

[Conserv]

I don’t even see the usual riveted-on factory VIN tag (right inner fender). Maybe that “thing” in place of the factory VIN tag is a Swiss authorization for a “reconstructed car”, if there is such a thing in Switzerland.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[02Les]

Being a circa April 1972 build it would not have the "timing cut-out".

 

So, it could well be the original car with later nose and tail panel. Updating '02s to "square-lights" was not uncommon in Europe, where many thought the model 73 was a change in the right direction, unlike the thoughts in USA due to the unwieldly bumpers.

 

JMHO

[Conserv]

7 minutes ago, 02Les said:

 

Being a circa April 1972 build it would not have the "timing cut-out"....

 

+1

 

The initial U.S. changeover from 121 to E21 head (alternatively, plastic to aluminum intake runners), with VIN 2761944, was in June 1972. The Euro changeover was a bit different, but still post-April.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by Conserv

[Swiss 2002Tii]

7 hours ago, Conserv said:

The initial U.S. changeover from 121 to E21 head (alternatively, plastic to aluminum intake runners), with VIN 2761944, was in June 1972. The Euro changeover was a bit different, but still post-April.

My '72 Tii was manufactured on 4th May 1972.  It is 11 units older than this one, so it must have been within a day..  Mine has the notch, no snorkel, and aluminum runners.

My relay mount up front looks like it might be from the later chassis configuration (I don't have an explanation or history).

Mine has a 72 E12 head, but it has the blocked hole for the fuel pump.

 

 

[Conserv]

20 minutes ago, Swiss 2002Tii said:

My '72 Tii was manufactured on 4th May 1972.  It is 11 units older than this one, so it must have been within a day..  Mine has the notch, no snorkel, and aluminum runners.

My relay mount up front looks like it might be from the later chassis configuration (I don't have an explanation or history).

Mine has a 72 E12 head, but it has the blocked hole for the fuel pump.

 

 

Fess up: you stole the relay rack from the Verona square taillight! ? The relay rack was a good solution and probably added by a prior owner as part of a re-paint: they were available separate from the inner fender and an easy add on.

 

I’m guessing your car is near the beginning of E12 heads, aluminum intake runners, and firewall notches on Euro-spec cars. (I’ll bet some capable forum member could come up with the Euro-spec equivalent of U.S.-spec VIN 2761944 — not-so-subtle hint!)

 

The head itself, dated July 1972 (7 “nubs” surrounding “72”), has been replaced post-factory. But I’m guessing by the very factory-looking notch and aluminum intake runners that yours has been an E12 car from the factory.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[Swiss 2002Tii]

Thanks Steve, you've answered a couple of niggling questions I had.  I was told that the motor was rebuilt back in the '80's, the head might have been changed at that time.

My block was well-worn; I don't know the spec numbers, but I must be on third oversize pistons at 90.15, up from the previous 89.97:

 

My cleaned up E12 head:

 

 

This "72 squarie" Is actually a nice 30-minute drive from my home.  Under different circumstances, I would roll over there in my Tii just to tweak them, and put eyes on the motor number.

Unfortunately, Switzerland just surpassed Italy for CV-19 cases on a per capita basis.  If you folks are not aware of the situation in Italy, it is tragic, approaching 400 deaths per day, hospitals are overwhelmed.  We are a week or two behind them, and folks are just now waking up to the situation.

We are tucked in for the next few weeks, working from home.  Stay well, all!