71 Baur cabriolet on BAT

[Mike A]

On today For you guys that like ragtops (can’t get my phone to provide a link)

Edited March 24, 2020 by Mike A

[RYOLEER]

I gotchu buddy.

 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-bmw-2002-cabriolet/

[iinca]

just sold for 103k

[Conserv]

So, according to a chart of ‘02 cabriolets shown in the BAT photos, the two hundred 2002 cabriolets, as distinguished from the 1600 cabriolets, were manufactured from January to June 1971. And the changeover from pre-Modell 71 to Modell 71 — Modell 71 representing a substantial facelift and some bona fide upgrades, e.g., 12-fuse electricals — occurred in April 1971, smack dab in the middle of 2002 cabriolet production.

 

So... what are these two hundred 2002 cabriolets?
 

1. Some pre-Modell 71 and some Modell 71?
2. All pre-Modell 71

3. Some pre-Modell 71 and some a quasi pre-Modell 71/Modell 71 blend

 

If someone who knew more about cabriolets than I — this must be a large population — told me that those two hundred cabriolets left the BMW factory by April, on their way to Baur, I would expect that answer 2 above, all pre-Modell 71, might apply. Unless, of course, Baur made some Modell 71 upgrades in their shop.

 

But the BAT cabriolet that is the subject of this thread confused me. It looked like a pre-Modell 71 — chrome-trimmed dash, no knee mouldings — despite its June 1971 manufacturing date, until I saw the 12-fuse electricals (I’m going to dismiss the square taillight relay rack as clearly a post-Baur addition). See the first two photos below.

 

But there is also, unambiguously, an old photo of the car on the BAT listing, third photo below, and it’s wearing a Modell 71 front bumper. Was this car originally a full Modell 71, converted back to pre-Modell 71?

 

The VIN range doesn’t tell us anything in particular, since the 2xxxxxx VIN’s were introduced in January 1971, well in advance of the Modell 71 introduction in April 1971.

 

So... what happened when a short production run of cabriolets ran into the Modell 71 changeover?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Conserv

[Mike A]

Steve.... other than hack off the top  of the sedan what structural mods were added to the chassis to prevent the car from folding in half?

[02Les]

2790197 (close to the end of the 200) has 6 fuses and bumpers, silver $ gauges of a pre '71 model.

Whilst this car has also been resto'd, it is unlikely that that a 12 fuse system would be changed to a 6 fuse one.

So I'll bet on all 200 being pre '71 models.

[Conserv]

2 hours ago, 02Les said:

2790197 (close to the end of the 200) has 6 fuses and bumpers, silver $ gauges of a pre '71 model.

Whilst this car has also been resto'd, it is unlikely that that a 12 fuse system would be changed to a 6 fuse one.

So I'll bet on all 200 being pre '71 models.

Interesting, Les, and not in the least surprising, for a “restorer” who insists on applying the 1974-and-later “Original Parts” sticker to every damn BMW they “restore” — just ‘cuz in came in the package of stickers! Thank you, as always. I had you specifically in mind when I drafted my post!

 

I was, at some low level, annoyed when the Oldenzaal “restoration photos” were solely photos taken after the body had been bathed in gallons of Inka. Show me the car as it arrived at the shop!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Conserv

[Conserv]

2 hours ago, Mike A said:

Steve.... other than hack off the top  of the sedan what structural mods were added to the chassis to prevent the car from folding in half?

Mike,

 

I believe that the rockers were heavily reinforced and that the well for the folded top contributes to the reinforcement. There are quite a few other minor changes, e.g., the windshield pitches more than the sedan and the front vent windows are non-operable.

 

If we’re lucky, a cabriolet specialist will wander through this thread and put some meat on the bones!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Conserv

[Mike A]

Yeah...The longitudinal would need some serious reinforcement to build up its section modulus. I would bet that car’s suspension geometry moves quite a bit under stress

[FunElan]

6 hours ago, Conserv said:

Mike,

 

I believe that the rockers were heavily reinforced and that the well for the folded top contributes to the reinforcement. There are quite a few other minor changes, e.g., the windshield pitches more than the sedan and the front vent windows are non-operable.

 

If we’re lucky, a cabriolet specialist will wander through this thread and put some meat on the bones!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

I can take some specific pictures of the extra bracing tomorrow...but you are generally correct. The inner front fender to frame rail connection has a triangular piece added, square boxed section through the rockers, the a pillars have a big boxed section added, the seat mounts have extra bracing underneath going across the car (side to side), and there is a "tray" that accepts the roof as its folded back. 

[AceAndrew]

9 hours ago, Conserv said:

 

I was, at some low level, annoyed when the Oldenzaal “restoration photos” were solely photos taken after the body had been bathed in gallons of Inka. Show me the car as it arrived at the shop!

 

 

edit

Edited March 27, 2020 by AceAndrew

[uai]

Also the part that goes from left to right where the rear seat is on is double walled.

Apart from the 200 there were some cars (I once heard a number like 16 seems somehow small to me as I've alreday seen 4 of them) with a so called B-Number that either used TP numbers or regular 2002 VINS or 1600 Convertible vins that had an addition e.g. +15585##+B15+ which is a 2002 built by baur on a 1600 VIN.

AFAIK this is one of three built by baur with some facelift features (Seats, two piece dash, side trim). This doesn't imply it is correct in all details.

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by uai

[Mike A]

3 hours ago, FunElan said:

 

I can take some specific pictures of the extra bracing tomorrow...but you are generally correct. The inner front fender to frame rail connection has a triangular piece added, square boxed section through the rockers, the a pillars have a big boxed section added, the seat mounts have extra bracing underneath going across the car (side to side), and there is a "tray" that accepts the roof as its folded back. 

Ahh... a gusset to eliminate (almost) deflection. Makes sense

[Conserv]

Thank, Uli,

 

The BAT car, however, has a three-piece dash, no knee trim, and pre-Modell 71 bumpers — at least as restored. The old photo suggests, if only with a front bumper and 12-fuse electricals, that the car may have been outfitted as a Modell 71 prior to the restoration. Originally? Un-clear, although I have great respect for Les’s experience and knowledge, which leans toward pre-Modell 71. It’s hard to discern, of course, whether Oldenzaal was (a.) largely returning the car to its factory appearance, (b.) giving it a more customary cabriolet appearance by making it mostly pre-Modell 71, or (c.) doing whatever was easiest and most convenient for them... 

 

Best regards,

 

Steve