Brake warning system on a 69 1600

[Steve570GT]

Restoring a 1600. ( US car) Has the separate brake master cylinder reservoir (directly on top of the master cylinder) and clutch master cylinder reservoir. Upgrading to the single clutch/ brake reservoir. Question is, the old reservoir has connectors for a brake fluid level warning system, but I don’t see any spare wiring that would accommodate that. My new reservoir has a cap with float for a warning light.

There is a brake light on the dash ( with a tiny button which I assume is a light test switch)

Anyone know if these early cars had a fluid level warning system?  There’s no wiring at the e-brake lever so I assume that was never an option

[jscaptura1]

The 1600 never (to the best of my knowledge) had a hydraulic clutch, they were a mechanical direct linkage.  If you have a reservoir on top of the master cylinder and another clutch fluid reservoir,  a PO must have changed.from the original.   My 70 1600 has the.mechanical clutch and.a single reservoir.   It has a plunger in the reservoir that, when the fluid level is too low, will turn on the round red warning light on the dash.  My dash and instrument cluster is all original and I have never.been able to do a test or have a small button near it.  So to answer your question, yes there is a brake fluid warning system on the old 1600's but.it sounds.like yours.may have been converted.to.a.different system ( maybe from a 2002?).  What is your vin and.do you have any pictures?

[jscaptura1]

This is from a 67 1600 and you can see the single reservoir at the bottom of the photo.  It has only 2 hoses headed to the master cylinder.  The plunger is in the reservoir and when it loses contact with the cap, the red dash light comes on.  Now on this picture I dont see.wires attached to the cap.  On mine there is either 1 or 2, so I am.not sure if earlier ones (before 1970) actually did have a brake warning.light.  it is possible the 69 did not have one, that would explain the lack.of wiring for it.

[Steve570GT]

Here’s a couple of pics. The clutch reservoir mounting was welded to the fender, I doubt someone added that. I removed the original reservoir and replaced it with the new combined brake/ clutch reservoir. The other pic shows the original brake and clutch reservoir. The car was a US 1600 imported by Max Hoffman (as the all seem to be) I thought the US mandated the warning system.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Steve570GT]

By the way, nice to see another Florida Green!

[ibewebbman]

I believe the mounting is original, my 68 is identical. Pretty sure the clutch was changed to hydraulic at some point in its life from mechanical.

[jscaptura1]

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=2511-EUR-11-1969-114-BMW-1600&diagId=34_0807

In the link above from real OEM the diagram shows 2 different reservoir options.  My 1600, had a build date of 11/69 and uses #4 with the warning system.  So it appears that some.came with it and some

without.  Btw, the florida green is not.mine, I was just looking for a.picture with the reservoir in it.  This is.mine:

[Steve570GT]

stunning

[Steve570GT]

My reservoir looks like “none of the above” but it does have connection points for a fluid level sensor

[Slavs]

I have a 69 1600 with single circuit brakes. The two reservoirs mounted directly on top of the brake master were used on 1968 2002s and 1969 1600s with single circuit brakes. A lot of Alfa Romeos had the identical brake master and fluid reservoir. The only difference between the 68 2002 and 69 1600 hydraulic system is that the 1600 used the mechanical clutch while the 2002 used the hydraulic clutch. My 1600 also has the welded mounting bracket on the fender for the single reservoir, even though it never came equipped with the reservoir. But, I converted my clutch actuation from mechanical to hydraulic and added the single reservoir, just like the one you have pictured, for my clutch hydraulics. So, now my 69 1600s hydraulics are identical to the 68 2002.

 

I like the idea of having separate reservoirs for my brakes and clutch. The only reason I converted my car from mechanical clutch actuation to hydraulic was in anticipation of adding a 5 speed OD trans from a 320i. Otherwise, I like the mechanical activation. Your brake fluid reservoirs have the attachments for the brake fluid reservoir warning light. And, your car should have the wire harness for the brake fluid reservoirs unless somebody removed it. 

 

If you have the single circuit brakes, a cheaper alternative is to use the brake master from the 320i. Other than the shape of the fluid reservoir it is identical to your master. You can get it in either cast metal or light alloy.  It also has the brake fluid reservoir mounted on top of it. And it has a provision for the wiring associated with the fluid level light. The reservoir fluid nipples on the 320i version are a little larger, so I don't know if the reservoirs are interchangeable. For a span of about 20 years, e21s of every variant littered the pick a part yards. That's where I got my 320i brake masters because I wanted the reservoir, otherwise the parts stores were asking more for the reservoir than the master. 

 

I've attached pics of the 320i master and fluid reservoir.

A BMW 320i Master cylinder is available new for as low as $60. I've also attached a schematic of the Alfa master cylinder and reservoir.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Napa-39405-Brake-Master-Cylinder-1977-1983-BMW-320i-W-O-Reservoir/183687569559?epid=2282056055&hash=item2ac4a1e097:g:NPIAAOSw04ZcZxih

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Slavs

[jscaptura1]

Slavs, thanks so much for the info!  I knew someone would have the full story on this system!

 

[rcf925]

My 68 2002 has the original 2 reservoir set up, But I'm using E21 Disc brake set-up with E21 master but both have low level sensors and light on dash like original car had

 

[Mike Self]

Steve, the picture of the reservoir mounted on your inner fender well in your second post isn't the original reservoir.  Note that it has reinforcements that run from the mounting ears to the container.  Original reservoirs don't have them.  If that replacement reservoir was ordered from BMW, it would have come with the warning light cap, as that's a US part.

 

You didn't post the VIN on your 1600, but like 2002s, there were two 1969 variations:  those built before 1 Jan 1969 and those built after (they're all 1969 model year cars).  New federal regulations took effect on 1 Jan '69, and the factory didn't start incorporating those changes until that date, rather than the beginning of the model year.  The changeover VIN for 2002s is 1664760, and for 1600s, 1567864.  The factory parts book is a little confusing, but it appears that 1600s built before that number don't have the warning light cap.  There's another significant VIN in this whole brake situation:  1563748.  If I'm reading the parts book correctly between that VIN and 1567864 the brake fluid reservoir was atop the dual master cylinder.

 

This seems to make sense, as the first 343 US 2002s had mechanical (not hydraulic) clutches; when the clutch mechanism was converted to hydraulic on the 2002s (only), the M/C-mounted brake fluid reservoirs had no provision to provide fluid for the now hydraulic clutches, so a separate reservoir was provided, mounted exactly where yours is on your 1600. That changeover, at VIN 1660343 corresponds with the 1563748 1600 VIN changeover.  That setup continued until 1664760, when a single reservoir was mounted high up on the fender well, with service nipples for both the clutch and brakes on 2002s, and brakes only (at VIN 1567864)for 1600s.  

 

When a PO converted your clutch actuation to hydraulic, he mounted a brake fluid reservoir on the existing bracket that otherwise wouldn't have been used on a 1600.  

 

Check your VIN, then the relevant pages (34/20-36) and see what you think...

 

mike

[Preyupy]

My 1600 was built in 9/69 (1570087)  and came with the remote mounted reservoir including the fluid level sensor.  It was a Mechanical clutch.  It was converted to hydraulic in June 1981 when I installed the OD 5 speed.  I just changed the reservoir to the 3 port one used on the 2002 and changed the pedal box.  For some reason I remember back in the early 70's not understanding the differences between the cars with the reservoir mounted on the master cylinder and the remote ones.  It seemed very hit and miss at the time.   

[Steve570GT]

The pic I posted of the inner fender includes the new brake/clutch reservoir with low level sender type cap. It is located in the same spot as the original clutch only reservoir. I located the wiring as well this morning and hooked it up. Now have a functioning low level warning system, and also the brake light “test” button on the dash is also functional. The vin is 1563436, according to BMW archives, manufactured February 1968.
Based on what I figure, the car was an early hydraulic clutch car, as per the original reservoir I removed.