Watch those 123 clips!

[7502]

123 Ignition people probably already know this, but thought I would post as a reminder. Driving in to work this morning stopped at a light on a hill and decided to chirp the tires a bit as the light turned green. Car staled out, ran super rough and then died half way through my turn through the intersection. Since I was on a hill had to coast back down through the intersection and pull off the road into a cemetery. Luckily there wasn't much traffic that time of the morning.  Popped the hood to find the rotor cap had come loose and the rotor too. Those cheap cap retaining spring clips finally made a sucker out of me. Bent the clip radius a little tighter, pushed down the rotor and secured the cap and I was off and running.  Wonder how they choose such weak clips for an otherwise nice product.   

 

Thanks for listening I had to vent. All's well that ends well I guess until the next time. 

[adawil2002]

Have had my 123s "rebuilt" under warranty because of oil intrusion into the cap. Despite being a well documented issue, the company refuses to mill a helix in the distributor shaft like the original Bosch distributors.

 

Companies will do anything to save a few cents.  

['76mintgrün'02]

I don't have a 123, but have read that the clips are not as springy as they should be; meaning they are soft and easy to bend. 

 

Just for reference, new clips for the Bosch distributors are $35/pr. at Stoddard, so they are not exactly cheap, but they are very stiff spring steel (assuming they are like the original Bosch clips).  

 

I'm afraid the 'chirp the tires' situation may indicate that you  have engine mount issues that are letting the engine rock up and hit the sheet metal above it and that's what knocked the cap off.

 

It's good that the rotor wasn't damaged.  They use one with a step in the bore to fit the one they machined into the shaft, so you have to order new ones from them.  The rotors from our Bosch distributors don't fit that shaft.

 

Tom

[7502]

29 minutes ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

I'm afraid the 'chirp the tires' situation may indicate that you  have engine mount issues that are letting the engine rock up and hit the sheet metal above it and that's what knocked the cap off.

 

Thanks Tom, I'll try to think about how to check for engine mount issues. I liked the clip hypothesis since it was relatively easy to deal with and my clips were super weak before I bent them. Be nice if I could swap in some tight clips from an old air cooled VW Bosch disturber which I might have in the garage. 

['76mintgrün'02]

18 minutes ago, 7502 said:

I'll try to think about how to check for engine mount issues.

 

Open the hood, put your foot on the brake and rev the engine to see how much it tips.

 

(I don't think the VW Bosch clips will work on the 123, but they do work on the 2002 Bosch distributors).

[Dudeland]

I have a 123 and the clips are significantly weaker to the point of over engineering the wire retainers so that minimizes any pull on the cap.  I definitely think that they could go to a better rotor design, especially for those who need to run solid rotors like me.  All they need to do to make the clips better is heat treat them a bit. 

 

 

['76mintgrün'02]

24 minutes ago, Dudeland said:

I definitely think that they could go to a better rotor design, especially for those who need to run solid rotors like me.  All they need to do to make the clips better is heat treat them a bit. 

 

 

The rotor design fits the step they put in their shaft.  My argument would be that they need a better shaft design, so the standard rotor would fit.

 

All they need to do is use better steel in the clamps, so they can heat treat them a bit.

 

(I would put some sort of tie around the cap/clips if I had one of those distributors).  

[tech71]

Seems to be a recurring theme here, problems with the distributor, problems with product support, problems problems problems.

How much do these things cost? It would seem they are far from reliable.

It appears in their haste to produce a "smart" dizzy, they neglected to properly engineer the mechanical rotating assembly  or properly integrate it to the new tech. Among other problems. 

Sorry, need my coffee ?

[BarneyT]

I had the same thing happened on my Inka’s 123 not long after Ed installed it, The Cap Popped off as I was trying to restart the car after stopping at a restaurant to eat. ...I re-bent the two springs to put more tension on them and haven’t had any trouble since...

[jimk]

3 hours ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

(I would put some sort of tie around the cap/clips if I had one of those distributors).  

Duct tape again.

 

2 In. section from a bicycle fat tire inner-tube.

 

Invitees, add to the list.

Edited April 9, 2020 by jimk

[ray_]

6 hours ago, tech71 said:

Seems to be a recurring theme here, problems with the distributor, problems with product support, problems problems problems.

How much do these things cost? It would seem they are far from reliable.

It appears in their haste to produce a "smart" dizzy, they neglected to properly engineer the mechanical rotating assembly  or properly integrate it to the new tech. Among other problems. 

Sorry, need my coffee ?

You left out that the manufacturer is an arrogant little shit when it comes to acknowledging the well-known shortcomings of the product as well as honoring related valid warranty claims.

 

Also I've been told by those who know, that 123 quite apparently went for maximizing profit rather than spending just a few more dollars per (expensive) unit for more robust components.

 

123 = great Idea. Shitty execution and customer service.

 

Cheers,

Edited April 9, 2020 by ray_

[jgerock]

Jinxing myself here> no issues with the one I installed in my 69.

[7502]

I tested for excessive engine shake or movement earlier today just to eliminate that possibility. I blipped the throttle a number of times watching the engine and it wasn't close to hitting anything. The top of the distributor only moved  about 1" or so, maybe it's different when actually moving from a stop, but in my case I think the clips are truly at fault and not my engine mounts.  I'll try and see what I can come up with for a permanent fix, or just continue to periodically pre-bend those darn clips. 

[VWJake]

If your engine is twisting an 1” with no load on it, imagine what that twist might look like when car is in gear and trying to take off. 
 

perhaps a measured stick attached to the side of the aircleaner. With the hood open, apply the brakes and try to launch the car.  See how much the engine jumps then... I suspect it will be significant.

 

another more passive thing to do is to look at the cap/wires. Are there any scrape/scratch marks from where it could have collided w the rain tray?

 

None of this was meant to sound condescending, so if it is I’m claiming “shelter in place bitchiness”... ?

[TobyB]

4 hours ago, 7502 said:

I tested for excessive engine shake or movement earlier today just to eliminate that possibility. I blipped the throttle a number of times watching the engine and it wasn't close to hitting anything. The top of the distributor only moved  about 1" or so, maybe it's different when actually moving from a stop, but in my case I think the clips are truly at fault and not my engine mounts.  I'll try and see what I can come up with for a permanent fix, or just continue to periodically pre-bend those darn clips. 

Do what Tom recommended and put it in first, foot firmly on the brake.

 

If the mount is broken, you'll need to clean off the seat soon after.

 

t

 

learned about this one early on... the same way.