SOS-Engine won’t start..loud combustion

[RPP]

Hans, Buckeye, Tech 21, Mark92131- Guys, thanks for hanging there with me. Here is an update based on the inform previously provided. Photo on top was taken from below the engine and it depicts the TDC (“OT”) and marker just below the alternator. They are now align. Photo bottom left, the line is not squarely lined-up with oil bar on both rockers on cylinder #1. Bottom right is where I think there is a problem- the rotor is not pointing towards the mark in the lip of the distributor as identified by tech 21 and Mark 92131. What next? Rotate the distributor to the mark?

[tech71]

Curious to see what answers you get to that question.

You  are absolutely certain that since it was running, nothing has been done to the distributors location/position/orientation?

My advice is based on the distributor being properly installed and timed well enough to run.... If thats not the case .....

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by tech71

[RPP]

tech71- I am using the rotor that was there before. When installing the new condenser, I rotated the distributor clockwise for about an inch in order to get to the screw. I marked it with pencil before rotating and it went back to the mark after installation of the condenser. The rotor is not in line with the mark.

[tech71]

You didn't mention that dude, actually you said you did not rotate the dizzy.?

It didn't pop up did it? no possibility that its now a tooth or two out of sync with the cam gear?

My advice at this point is to turn the dizzy to align with your rotor and check your plug wires one by one.

Make sure... those suckers are long... not hard to get one wrong.

If that doesn't do it then a full static  timing reboot may be needed. Good luck

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by tech71

[Hans]

1 hour ago, Buckeye said:

 

Sorry Buckeye, I can't get rid of that quote box.

Hold the phone here. I'm not familiar with your crank pulley which I assume is for AC. Nor do I recognize that pointy thing on the right of photo. I'm used to a pencil like thing depicted in fig 3.5 of my PDF.

When you say from the bottom of the engine, do you mean from the floor? or just looking down on the pulley?

Are there any other marks on the cam? Maybe one hiding in front of the oil bar? If not, the cam may not be at TDC. Which would be the case if the engine was not at TDC. Which would explain = maybe - why the rotor is off the dist notch. Soooo, time to look down the hole on the back of engine and find the OT mark on the flywheel. Or find the pointy marker on the front.

[Buckeye]

FYI

OT = TDC

Z = 3 DEG. BTDC

 

Go back and get cam sprocket lined up with oil distributor pipe then look into trans hole and see if OT on flywheel is lined up. Make that happen if it is not, and then look at rotor and the notch on distributor body.

[RPP]

Sorry Tech 21, that was weeks ago and though that returning the dizzy to the original mark would do. Hans, the photo was taken w my back on the floor looking up at the engine/oil pan. I did not see any other markers but will look again. Buckeye, will check that.

 

 

 

[Hans]

Like he said. You can turn the engine backward (counter clockwise looking from front of engine) by using a big socket on the crank pulley, or, just push the car. But if you do that, you need to go at least 45 deg to take the slack out of the cam chain, then come back to get the cam mark lined up.

[Hans]

5 minutes ago, RPP said:

Sorry Tech 21, that was weeks ago and though that returning the dizzy to the original mark would do. Hans, the photo was taken w my back on the floor looking up at the engine/oil pan. I did not see any other markers but will look again. Buckeye, will check that.

 

 

 

That explains a few things. The pulley timing marks are going to be about even with the alternator support arm bolt at TDC. Look for the pointy pencil there. Or down the hole onto the flywheel as suggested above. We're getting there.

[RPP]

Gents, a new conundrum. Which one is it? In the flywheel there are TDC markings in the inner ring (closest to the engine block) and some in the outer ring (closest to the radiator). See photo below taken from under the engine. The blue identifies what I think is the only cognizable marker I could identify. I was using the outer marker (closest to the radiator) as my TDC. The two locations are not aligned.  Could that be the problem?

[Buckeye]

Very well could be. I recall a post a while back that member ran into similar situation with crankshaft pulley markings. So, if I was you ignore crankshaft pulley and proceed with camshaft and flywheel procedure. Once that is stablished then you find which marking on crankshaft is the correct one.

[Hans]

The photo on right shows notches with OT stamped nearby. Those are timing marks. Question is, what are they supposed to line up with.

Do you have a pencil like pointer near where the alternator support arm attaches to the front of the motor? Or maybe something like fig. 4.3?

In any event, time to look for the flywheel mark.

As suggested above, rotate engine clockwise (looking from front of motor) to get the cam notch even with the oiler bar. Then look at the back of the motor above the started for the hole (fig 4.4) and the OT mark stamped on the rim of the flywheel. You don't want the ball on the photo- that's later - you want OT and a line.

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Hans

[jimk]

My early engine has a cast in indicator near the pan joint like in the blue circle.  Later ones have a pointed metal post farther up.  When I built up another engine from parts, the case had a pointer. Marks on pulleys are different for the two timing covers.  Pulley and case could be from different eras on the above.

 

It's my opinion the marks on the front pulley were for engine assembly where the flywheel/trans bell housing is not available to use it.  I also believe that timing at the specified rpm always accounts for a dirty or sticky mechanical advance mechanism in the distr. or weak springs at the distr ages.  If all were new and/or the distr was setup in a Sun machine, then other techniques work ok.  But timing at idle has about the most guessing there can be at speeds where knock can occur it things aren't new.  So forget the front pulley, use the flywheel and it will be right.

Edited April 17, 2020 by jimk

[Hans]

I've used the front marks with pencil marker for years - more to set maximum advance. Easier than climbing over the motor to look down the hole (but then I have an NK CS so its more of a reach). Anyway, at this point with OP, we need to confirm TDC somehow.

[RPP]

Thank you all for all the good advice you have given me. I will report on my progress tomorrow.