Engine S/N 1660001

[kbobwhite]

So i've been told that engine serial #s match up with the vin of the car is this correct?

I have a 1600-2 that has had a 2.0 installed. the engine serial # is 1660001 which according to anything I can find is one of 2 67 cars built. any insight on this?

Edited April 27, 2020 by kbobwhite
mistype

[Mike Self]

The US spec (built specifically for the US market to meet the Federal safety and emission standards) began with VIN 1660001, so that engine is indeed from the first US spec '02 off the line.  The two cars the factory says were built in 1967 were in fact 1968 model year cars, just assembled prior to 1 January 1968.  They were built as press and exhibition cars, for car magazines to do road tests on, and to display at auto shows.  I suspect at least one of 'em was the Polaris sunroof car that is in all the road tests of the "new BMW 2002" that appeared in Road & Track, Car and Driver, Popular Science etc, in their March and April 1968 issues.  And if so, it was the car David Davis wrote his famous "Turn Your Hymnals to 2002"  story. 

 

I have most of those road tests, but the VIN plate isn't clearly visible in any of 'em.  But I'll bet an e-mail off to BMW Classic with the VIN would tell us its delivery date and original color.  Too bad you don't have the rest of the car, but that indicates it's probably long gone.  The lowest number VIN i've heard of is 1660003 (or perhaps 0009--it was awhile ago that I saw it).

 

mike 

[kbobwhite]

Thanks for the insight Mike. 

[Conserv]

Wow! I never thought we’d come across the engine of the first U.S.-spec 2002!
 

Building on Mike’s point, besides the two U.S.-spec pre-production 2002’s manufactured in 1967, VIN’s 1660001 and 1660002, BMW produced ten Euro-spec pre-production 2002’s in December 1967: VIN’s 1600001 through 1600010.

 

Please share your email from BMW Group Archives with us!

 

(Just email your car’s and the engine’s VIN’s to info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com and request their data on both VIN’s.)

 

In addition, would it be possible to photograph your engine block’s casting date, as well as the casting date of the head currently on the engine? Here’s a thread on engine block casting dates.

 

The casting date for the head should be on its left (intake) side: a two digit year surrounded by 1 to 12 tiny nubs, indicating the month of that year. The original head was probably a type 121 head and it would have had a 1967 casting date. Below, to illustrate, the original type E21, 2,0 head, cast April 1976 (4 nubs surrounding “76”), of my ‘76 ‘02.

 

Did you ever imagine you’d have a “celebrity engine”? You do!
 

Thanks and regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Conserv

[kbobwhite]

Here’s some pics of the casting dates. 

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, kbobwhite said:

Here’s some pics of the casting dates. 

Great! Thank you.

 

So the head is a 121. I’m going to interpret the casting date as January 1967 (one nub surrounding “67”) although the “6” is slightly “8”-like.

 

The block was cast September 3, 1967 (“3J67” where the letter “I” is not utilized in the month convention due to its similarity to a “1”).

 

So it would appear that the block and head remain original. Other items, such as the timing chain cover and valve cover are very possibly original, although their casting dates would require removal to see. And, I’m curious whether VIN 1660001’s transmission could have accompanied the engine transplant. As with, for instance, a valve cover, a transmission housing’s casting date is only visible with the transmission removed. But — just curious — does your 1600-2 have a mechanical clutch or a hydraulic clutch?

 

Anyway, this is all quite amazing! The engine could have become available when the original 1660001 chassis was either wrecked or rusted. We’re nonetheless lucky to have the engine. After you have BMW Group Archives data for VIN 1660001 (manufacturing date and factory color), we should definitely create an entry for 1660001 (and for your 1600-2, by the way) in the forum’s Registry.

 

Thanks again,

 

Steve

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Conserv

[kbobwhite]

20 minutes ago, Conserv said:

Great! Thank you.

 

So the head is a 121. I’m going to interpret the casting date as January 1967 (one nub surrounding “67”) although the “6” is slightly “8”-like.

 

The block was cast September 3, 1967 (“3J67” where the letter “I” is not utilized in the month convention due to its similarity to a “1”).

 

So it would appear that the block and head remain original. Other items, such as the timing chain cover and valve cover are very possibly original, although their casting dates require removal to see.

 

That’s all quite amazing! The engine could have become available when the original 1660001 chassis was either wrecked or rusted. We’re nonetheless lucky to have the engine. After you have BMW Group Archives data for VIN 1660002 (manufacturing date and factory color), we should definitely create an entry for 1660001 (and for your 1600-2, by the way) in the forum’s Regis try.

 

Thanks again,

 

Steve

 

Valve cover was cast March 67. not sure about the timing cover.

[Conserv]

4 hours ago, kbobwhite said:

Valve cover was cast March 67. not sure about the timing cover.

Excellent, and I’m going to assume that that valve cover is ribbed (because most un-ribbed covers tend to lack casting dates).

 

And is your 1600-2’s current clutch mechanically or hydraulically-actuated? Just wondering if VIN 1660001’s transmission and clutch might have been imported in its entirety from the original 2002 to your 1600-2. The mechanical versus hydraulic actuation is not a particularly effective way to prove the case, but it might provide some evidence if your car’s clutch is today hydraulically-actuated. And it’s a question that requires no dis-assembly.

 

I know I’m going pretty far afield here, but the other item that was occasionally swapped when 1600’s acquired 2.0-liter engines was the differential, to go from the 1600-2’s 4.11 to the 2002’s 3.64. And this swap was, admittedly, more often not done! But if you were to discover that your car had a long-neck 3.64 differential, VIN 1660001 might be the source.

 

Lastly, does your car have front and rear sway bars, as in factory, not aftermarket sway bars? Again, these were occasionally swapped from 2002’s that were being scrapped for parts, onto 1600-2’s that came without sway bars.

 

Thanks again and regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Conserv

[kbobwhite]

Valve covers are ribbed

clutch is mechanically actuated

not sure on the diff

looks like factory sway bars as far as i can tell.

[Mike Self]

3 hours ago, Conserv said:

does your 1600-2 have a mechanical clutch or a hydraulic clutch?

The first 300 or so US spec 2002s had mechanically actuated clutches, so that wouldn't be a giveaway as to whether the tranny is original to the engine.  

 

What's the VIN on your 1600-2's body?  The US-spec cars began with 1560001; one of the folks on the board has 1560679, a Sept 67 production car with lots of carryover '67 trim pieces you wouldn't expect to find on a US spec '68, but indicative of a "first series" 1968 1600...

 

A most unusual find: if only that engine could talk...

 

mike

[Conserv]

37 minutes ago, mike said:

... The first 300 or so US spec 2002s had mechanically actuated clutches, so that wouldn't be a giveaway as to whether the tranny is original to the engine...

 

Thank you, Mike! I’m certain you’ve mentioned that previously but I completely forgot! Sorry!

 

So that tell-tale goes away...

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Conserv

[visionaut]

Kevin,

 

Good to see you made it over here to FAQ! You’ll find lots more knowledgeable folks here for info on your cool early 1600-2 and it’s even cooler 2.0 swap...

 

Tom

[kbobwhite]

1 hour ago, mike said:

The first 300 or so US spec 2002s had mechanically actuated clutches, so that wouldn't be a giveaway as to whether the tranny is original to the engine.  

 

What's the VIN on your 1600-2's body?  The US-spec cars began with 1560001; one of the folks on the board has 1560679, a Sept 67 production car with lots of carryover '67 trim pieces you wouldn't expect to find on a US spec '68, but indicative of a "first series" 1968 1600...

 

A most unusual find: if only that engine could talk...

 

mike

my vin is  on the 1600-2 1525747

Here is the reply from BMW group on the car (sent off last week)

 

The BMW 1600 VIN 1525747 was manufactured on May 17th, 1967 and delivered on June 08th, 1967 to the BMW importer Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City. The original colour was Tampico, paint code 005.

[Conserv]

19 minutes ago, kbobwhite said:

my vin is  on the 1600-2 1525747

Here is the reply from BMW group on the car (sent off last week)

 

The BMW 1600 VIN 1525747 was manufactured on May 17th, 1967 and delivered on June 08th, 1967 to the BMW importer Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City. The original colour was Tampico, paint code 005.

Oh, you’ve got a very early 1600-2, originally, at least, a 6-volt car. That did not come from the factory with sway bars and it may not have even been pre-drilled for rear sway bars — I’m forgetting when the factory started prepping all rear subframes for sway bars. So, who knows, it may have inherited sway bars from VIN 1660001.

 

And Tampico is quite rare on ‘02’s.

Below is an original window sticker for VIN 1527753 (manufactured June 6, 1967). This should provide a glimpse of how your 1600-2’s window sticker probably appeared. “Wheel embellishers” are optional trim rings for the standard (dog dish) hub caps. “Skai upholstery” is the optional all-vinyl interior ordered my Hoffman Motors on virtually every U.S.-imported ‘02 , and “Exhaust pipe tip” is the chrome tailpipe extension found on virtually all U.S.-spec cars.

 

Let’s get the same Archives report for VIN 1660001 so we can see, at minimum, the manufacturing date and factory color.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Conserv

[02Les]

FYI:

 

Your 1600-2 was on Ebay Jan '06 in NW Michigan. It was stated it was a non-runner and had not run since 1997.