Another 13" tire option

[RFord888]

18 hours ago, AceAndrew said:

 

StilAuto 13x6 et.16 "Diana" wheels.  Can't wait to get them on.

 

 

 

 

 

To me, those are the Holy Grail of wheels!

 

 

[RFord888]

On 5/24/2020 at 10:06 AM, Conserv said:

And no rubbing, Rich? Fender lips rolled?

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Steve,

 

The saga continues: 

 

Mentioned earlier 205s on 5.5 inch wheels? Tried it today. Bought these wheels from an FAQ'er. Conservative look but classic too. Because I liked the 205s so much, thought I'd risk them on these wheels.

 

No go. The rears rub on significant road bumps. Didn't even try hard cornering. They are coming off...

 

Thanks,

 

Rich

 

 

[AceAndrew]

3 hours ago, RFord888 said:

To me, those are the Holy Grail of wheels!

 

 

 

For me as well!  Glad you like them.

 

 

3 hours ago, RFord888 said:

 

No go. The rears rub on significant road bumps. Didn't even try hard cornering. They are coming off...

 

 

So what you are saying is that you now have an extra set of these potentially sitting around?!  Let me know if this is the case.

 

 

@tjones02  Thanks Tom, really appreciate that.

[NickVyse]

Rich - aren't they e21 wheels? If so wrong off set for an 02 and if you lowered the car even 185s would rub. I've got 3 'Diana' wheels - what are the chances of finding a 4th? ?

[Conserv]

5 hours ago, NickVyse said:

 

... Rich - aren't they e21 wheels? If so wrong off set for an 02 and if you lowered the car even 185s would rub...

 

Hey, Rich,

 

Doubling up on Nick’s question, the mesh wheels, as Nick says, appear to be BMW OEM e21 alloys: 5.5 x 13, ET18 (possibly by F.P.S.). Can you confirm? And your ATS rims appear to 6 x 13, ET30, like the set Daniel (@MOJOJOY) documented in the Wheels Database:

 

 

Can you confirm? Daniel’s examples have “ET30” cast into the rims’ faces. If so, that 12mm outward shift in offset explains why the mesh rims struggle for fit while the star rims work, despite their greater width.

 

Thanks and best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Conserv

[Oldtimerfahrer]

Hi,

I would also suspect the offset as the culprit. Mounting 185/70-13 cinturatos on E21 steelies provoked rubbing for me, went to 5,5 inch Cosmics and no problem (only the calipers rub the wheel weights off).

Andrew

[RFord888]

6 minutes ago, Oldtimerfahrer said:

Hi,

I would also suspect the offset as the culprit. Mounting 185/70-13 cinturatos on E21 steelies provoked rubbing for me, went to 5,5 inch Cosmics and no problem (only the calipers rub the wheel weights off).

Andrew

 

1 hour ago, Conserv said:

Hey, Rich,

 

Doubling up on Nick’s question, the mesh wheels, as Nick says, appear to be BMW OEM e21 alloys: 5.5 x 13, ET18 (possibly by F.P.S.). Can you confirm? And your ATS rims appear to 6 x 13, ET30, like the set Daniel (@MOJOJOY) documented in the Wheels Database:

 

 

Can you confirm? Daniel’s examples have “ET30” cast into the rims’ faces. If so, that 12mm outward shift in offset explains why the mesh rims struggle for fit while the star rims work, despite their greater width.

 

Thanks and best regards,

 

Steve

 

You guys are spot on. Looks like I'll have some wheels for sale.

[Conserv]

Thanks, Rich,

 

That still leaves us with many “Will it fit?” mysteries!

 

Tom’s car runs 6 x 13, ET15, Cromodoras with 205/60 tires. With some fender-lip rolling, some 205/60’s fit, some do not. So tire profile (brand and model), as we know, plays a big role. And fender-lip rolling certainly provides additional clearance.

 

Andrew, with 6 x 13, ET16, Stilautos and 205/60 tires is probably in the same “maybe yes/maybe no” position, depending on choice of tire and fender-lip rolling.
 

And, lastly, your car’s history, especially body repairs and panel replacements, makes a difference.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[Oldtimerfahrer]

Hi,

Right Steve. I suspect my rear fenders were rolled, but I don't know because I have owned the car for less than half of its life. 

 

One point I have learned the hard way is also regarding caliper clearance...If you are running the ti/tii calipers, some disks will foul the calipers or at least be so tight that any balancing weights glued on will be removed at the first turn of the wheel... I don't have turbo calipers with the spacers to know whether that exacerbates the problem or "no difference".

I also have a set of 6x13 ET12 (?) basketweaves I got cheap, probably for this very reason. Have to hold on until the E21 comes fully into its own.

Andrew

[RFord888]

41 minutes ago, Oldtimerfahrer said:

Hi,

Right Steve. I suspect my rear fenders were rolled, but I don't know because I have owned the car for less than half of its life. 

 

One point I have learned the hard way is also regarding caliper clearance...If you are running the ti/tii calipers, some disks will foul the calipers or at least be so tight that any balancing weights glued on will be removed at the first turn of the wheel... I don't have turbo calipers with the spacers to know whether that exacerbates the problem or "no difference".

I also have a set of 6x13 ET12 (?) basketweaves I got cheap, probably for this very reason. Have to hold on until the E21 comes fully into its own.

Andrew

Andrew,

 

Last comment pretty funny. Suppose I could hang on to these...

 

But, and imagine this goes for any 18 offset 5.5 wheel, would 175/70s or even 165/70s work with such wheels?

 

And lastly, when I put the ATS wheels on the tii, noticed a couple wheel weights on the garage floor.

 

Thanks everyone for all the help.

 

Rich

[Conserv]

16 minutes ago, RFord888 said:

Andrew,

 

Last comment pretty funny. Suppose I could hang on to these...

 

But, and imagine this goes for any 18 offset 5.5 wheel, would 175/70s or even 165/70s work with such wheels?

 

And lastly, when I put the ATS wheels on the tii, noticed a couple wheel weights on the garage floor.

 

Thanks everyone for all the help.

 

Rich

Rich,

 

I’ve seen a lot of the stock 165/80’s on 5.5”, ET18, rims and they generally appear to work fine. I’ve also seen 185/70’s on 5.5”, ET18, rims, and they are often fine, occasionally not fine! A 175/70, because it is both narrower than a 185/70 and slightly smaller in overall diameter than a 165/80 or a 185/70, tends to fit a wide range of rim widths and offsets, but I’d hesitate to run them on 6” rims — they might be slightly “stretched”. If a 165/70 exists, I wouldn’t recommend it for an ‘02: it would be materially undersized in overall diameter.

 

In conclusion, the answer to life’s perpetual “Will it fit?” question is: maybe!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Conserv

[Jimmy]

On 5/22/2020 at 9:21 AM, Gordon said:

While researching 15" Vredestein tires for my tii, I noticed that Vulcan Tire carries the Vredestein classic tire lineup for those of you still running 13" tires.

https://www.vulcantire.com/sprint_classic_t.htm   

For those of you running 15" tires on your 02, Vulcan carries the Sportrac 5 195/50-15 V rated summer high performance tire for $75 each.

 

That site doesn't make obvious the cold temperature warnings for the Sprint Classic. I'm also confused by the M+S rating. 
 

I know it won't matter for those where tires are removed from the car and the cars get put away for several months each year. But for others who would be well served by an all-season tire, they're not an option. From the Sprint Classic listing over at Tire Rack:

 

"The Sprint Classic is Vredestein's Grand Touring Summer tire developed for drivers of classic automobiles who want a tire with vintage style combined with modern technology. Like all summer tires, the Sprint Classic is not intended to be serviced, stored nor driven in near- and below-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice."

 

and

 

"Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels, or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle."

 

Cheers

[Oldtimerfahrer]

Hi,

First part is clear, below 43F winter tires with the snowflake (not just M+S marking) are recommended. I had never seen the second part of that message, I guess they expect damage when stretching the carcass.

I had a set of 14" basketweaves with perfect but ancient Firestone tires. Properly stored I suppose. I drove them last week 50 miles to the shop to replace them, in that time both the sidewalls and the outer tread had serious splits and cracks...optically ok, but totally unsafe. I am surprised that you can remove them from the rims with no damage.

I guess all season tires are practical in some cases, a new one is certainly better than an old summer tire.

Andrew

[Conserv]

One by one, summer tires are acquiring these “cold weather warnings” and advertising denials of warranty coverage for summer tires exposed to cold temperatures, at least from Tire Rack. From Tire Rack’s description of the Pirelli CN36, in part:

 

“Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in High Performance Summer tires during cold weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. Pirelli's warranty does not cover tires that develop compound cracking due to use in ambient temperatures below 45 degrees Fahrenheit (7 degrees Celsius) because it occurs as a result of improper use or storage.“

 

And the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S:

“The Pilot Sport 4S excels in warm dry and wet conditions, so like all Max Performance Summer tires, is not intended to be serviced, stored nor driven in near- and below-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.”

 

I have always run separate summer and winter tires because I consider all-season tires — which were not even invented for a good chunk of my driving history — a bad compromise, given how critical a car’s limited contact with the road is. Now I can’t honestly evaluate the changes that have given rise to these cold-temperature warnings:

 

1. Vastly changed rubber compounds,

2. Dramatically lowered tire profiles that have exponentially increased the likelihood of road damage,

3. Desire to limit economic responsibility for warranted products, and

4. The exponential growth in litigation.

 

Just to name a few potential factors! If I believed factors 1 and 2 represented 90% of the rationale behind the warnings, I’d probably bring my summer tires inside for the winter. But, in my cynicism, I can’t help but believe that factors 3 and 4 represent 50% of the rationale behind the new warnings... ?
 

I generally replace tires at the ten year mark, if they’ve not worn out before that time. And “worn out” to me occurs well before the tread indicators. Lastly, I’ve never had a tire failure other than screw/nail leaks — hey, I live in NYC. We’ll see if that changes, and if I need to modify my care and feeding of summer tires!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

P.S. Although I couldn’t locate similar summer-tire warnings on the Pirelli and Michelin websites, the standard Michelin warranty has an exclusion for winter tires used outside of the winter months. Is only Tire Rack carrying these summer-tire warnings?

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Conserv

[Oldtimerfahrer]

Steve,

I'm with you, a bit more conservative running to 6 years, but I also run regularity rallies and track days and their no fun with compromised rubber.

I don't like the legalese, its pointing to not storing a car even in an unheated garage....rather ridiculous. I could understand restrictions on mounting a cold tire...but driving one or just having it stand outside at night...where I live we have frost sometimes in May, again in August....could skip Summer tires completely if taken literally...

Andrew