“Best” (or any) route to a 5-Speed Automatic

[Seth Horwitz]

I’m wondering if a 4-Speed Auto and M20, so the whole drivetrain from an E30 325i, may be the best option, or how much hacking would need to be done. I’d be pretty pissed if I bought the 4-Speed from a 318i to mate with the M10, not be happy, and then go source an M20 and new housing for the tranny which will probably be a huge hassle. I’ve seen a running (>200K mi) 325i that I could probably buy for around $1K. (If it weren’t so far away, I would’ve already bought it.) If the parts don’t look like they’d fit, I’d bring the E30 to a scrapyard. If it’d fit, I’d get it fabbed up, pull them both out, then rebuild both. 

[Son of Marty]

Just supposing here but from this picture it might fit with some widening of the tunnel behind the bell housing if your car was automatic to begin with if not you could try to fit the whole e30 tunnel to the back of the tranny.

 

[Seth Horwitz]

The car is an Auto, so I’m thinking that helps. It also has A/C, but that may need to be sacrificed. It makes sense, and your picture illustrates it perfectly, but you read about all of these guys with M20s and 5-speeds that they make fit with a bit of hammering, and it “feels” like the M20 and 4-speed should fit. That auto sure is fat, though. 

[Seth Horwitz]

14 minutes ago, Son of Marty said:

Just supposing here but from this picture it might fit with some widening of the tunnel behind the bell housing if your car was automatic to begin with if not you could try to fit the whole e30 tunnel to the back of the tranny.

 

 

Just to be crystal clear, which two trannies do you have on that cart?

[gary32]

Seth I am pretty sure zf made or makes a compact automatic that would require minimum tunnel clearance maybe not for a BMW though.

 

MAZDA RX8 6-speed Automatic Transmission 2009 | eBay.pdf

 

Low cost and the Mazda 6 spd manual/ 2002 has already been done here.

Edited May 28, 2020 by gary32

[Son of Marty]

On 5/26/2020 at 5:48 AM, Henning said:

Found a pic to compare:

 

 

May explain the weight gain.

It's a 86 E30 4-speed I planned to install in a 73 auto. It wasn't realized because I didn't know how to drive the speedo.

 

h

 

Picture was originally posted by Henning, I believe the larger is a e-30auto but it would be wise to confirm.

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, TobyB said:

The autostick on the VW I drove had a torque converter...

 

I think a modern auto in a 2002 is a long shot, and might as well accompany 

the N52 it used to be attached to.

 

Which is to say, this is a biggy problem, not an adaptor plate solution.

 

t

And, now that I’ve looked it up, my ‘58 Mercedes‘ Hydrak clutch had a torque converter as well.... ?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[Henning]

2 hours ago, Seth Horwitz said:

Just to be crystal clear, which two trannies do you have on that cart?

 

The one in front is the standard 2002 tranny.

The one in the back is taken from an '86 316 E30 series. I've bought the car where it's taken from because of its 4-gear transmission. It was hardly driveable but just enough to make sure it had four gears.

Sorry for not displaying required specifications exactly enough.

 

h

 

While editing: bought this diva of XS400 more than 25 years ago. Thinking about contacting Kfunk to ask how to domesticate her.

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Henning

[Seth Horwitz]

Thanks, Henning. Much appreciated. I just made the mistake of going to my friend’s dealership where I always walk away thinking about maybe shaking around my cars. I’m not sure where the 2002 fits in, but I’m still working forward. 

[BarneyT]

Seth Horowitz...I have a similar situation with nerve damage in my left leg... one thing that I did to my automatic that made it a ton More fun to drive was I replaced the clock with tachometer I found that when you really see your RPMs you can drive the automatic a lot harder than you think... I live in the hilly area and downshift all the time to climb the hills.

Edited May 29, 2020 by BarneyT

[Seth Horwitz]

Good info. Thanks, Barney. I know on older posts you came up as thinking about going with the 4hp22 swap. Did you go ahead with it, or keep the 3-speed?

 

To your point, I had an A4 when they first came out with the 1.8T in 1997, an engine that Volkswagen still uses in a modified form to this day. The car was REALLY slow, but felt really fast, which was an amazing combo. I felt like I was flying and I was barely going over the speed limit. It got dangerous when I got out of that and climbed into my mother’s A8, assumed I was going about 70, but was doing 120. The actual speed isn’t as important as how it feels on the road. I’m not racing or looking to set any records. 

[AustrianVespaGuy]

I'm not one to usually advocate this route, but might make sense in the given situation.  Seems there are at least a few electric conversions out there; have you considered that route?  Probably a bit more expensive, but for a 2-pedaler, I think you'd end up with a car that's much more fun to drive than the M10 with a slushbox!

[Seth Horwitz]

It’s funny, as the thought had crossed my mind. I saw some guy did a hatchet job of a DIY. If done properly, it’d be interesting, but I think that the reinforcement needed to make the car not turn into a pretzel would be enormous. Sure, you pull the engine (and sometimes transmission)), but you’re adding a whole lot of weight and torque if you want something with a range over a hundred miles. Putting that in a forty year old chassis may get messy. 

[TobyB]

It doesn't have to be heavy anymore depending on the range you want (thanks Nissan)

and torque management is trivial with an electric motor.

 

But it is a huge project, just like the N52 and the dual clutch self- shifting trans...

 

t

 

[jgerock]

On 5/27/2020 at 1:41 PM, Jimmy said:

 

Awesome. I bet he was fun to ride with.

 

That era of VW used a cable actuated clutch so it would be less difficult to retrofit the Autostick solenoid for clutch operation. Didn't 1600s use some kind of non-hydraulic clutch linkage? Maybe someone who knows more about the differences can chime in on suitability for such a retrofit.

 

Cheers,

Jim

IIRC, The semi-automatic stick shift option was first available in the 69 Beetle. This coincided with the switch from swing axles to CV joints. A pressure switch on the base of the shift lever engaged/disengaged the transmission, so you had to be careful about leaving your hand on the lever.  The two pedals (brake and clutch) were combined into one with a common pad. A fully automatic transmission was also available - possibly starting in 1968.  I don’t think either one was very reliable...

 

Edit: just peeked at my Bentley VW manual for the 66-69 Beetle.  Semi auto cars had torque converter and unique vertical shift mechanism connected to a servo.  The engine oil pump was dual purpose type with a secondary set of gears that pumped ATF from a remote reservoir to the tranny.

Edited May 29, 2020 by jgerock