123Tune Dizzy - Now I'm dizzy

[vairter]

Here's a recent link to my effort to choose between manifold or ported vacuum to run my 123:

 

https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/262832-tuning-the-new-123-distributor/

 

 

There are many other discussions of this that you can find on here...

[jimk]

12 hours ago, Squid's 02 said:

The one thing that I still don't have a complete understanding of is the vacuum advance. Can any of the experts in this thread provide a simple explanation of the vacuum advance? When it would come into play? Benefits? And possible suggestions of initials settings?

Bottom line is vacuum (or part engine load advance, i.e. anything not full load) provides some increase in economy.

 

The long story is about gasoline/air mixture flame speed at various pre-combustion cylinder pressures and fuel air charge density.  The lower the pressure (part load), the slower the flame speed and at higher pressures (full load), the faster the flame speed.

Flame propagates away from the ignition source (spark plug).  When it's all burned, the most post combustion pressure will be in the cylinder.  The object is to get the most pressure on the piston between 11-13 degrees ATDC (After Top Dead Center) for the most work on the crankshaft or torque produced.

So at full load (at any rpm) advance could be say 30 degrees BTDC (Before Top Dead Center) to get all the fuel burned and have the greatest pressure on the piston.

At part load, the flame travels slower and to get it all burned for the greatest pressure on the piston at 11-13 ATDC, the spark needs to occur sooner, and so the vacuum advance.  Manifold vacuum is an indication of engine load so it is convenient.  No vacuum advance and the peak pressure is later and the energy is not used (goes out the exhaust pipe).

[fastricky]

So I learned that I do not have the bluetooth version of the 123Tune dizzy. Seems like adjustment is along the lines of a traditional distributor, gonna go that route and see how I do. Am I wrong?

[Stevenc22]

If you do not have the bluetooth version, then you have the USB version.

 

I have the USB version. There is an allen bolt in the side of the distributor. Remove it to expose the USB port. Plug a laptop into the USB and install the 123 windows software. Program the curve using the laptop software.

 

123's do not have a bosch curve in the distributor from factory. You CANNOT just treat it like a regular distributor.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Stevenc22

[zinz]

If you have the USB version, you will need the proper patch cord to hook it up to your laptop. Be careful when plugging that cord into the dizzy... the mount can be fragile (ask Ray how he knows)

 

You may also have the switchable version. You will know when you remove the Allen head cover from the side of the body. If it is the switchable version, you will need to go to the 123 site and determine which number coincides best to the Tii curve. 
 

Confirm the curve with an advancing timing light, as we’ve said. 
 

Good luck,

Ed

[fastricky]

OK thanks gents. One thing that was quite irritating: I hunted down the original manual that came with it - offers basic installation instruction and not much more. Seems like a new technology item like this should offer detailed instruction of fine tuning etc. Also another major irritation - it only works on Windows. I have a Mac. ? Any reason to stick with this distributor? My inclination is to reenact the scene from Office Space with the copier.

Edited September 25, 2020 by fastricky

[zinz]

Confirm which version you have before breaking out the Louisville Slugger...

[fastricky]

OK let me break things down: When cold the car starts reluctantly and idles VERY roughly (the exhaust clangs against the floor pan!). When warm, this goes away but idle is slightly lumpy (you can feel the pulsing with your hand on the stick shift) and the car accelerates smoothly and feels great, but runs hot.

 

Sounds like I should just advance the distributor (very slightly) and see what that does. I'll be making marks so I can return to the base setting, but seems like I don't have anything to lose trying this?

Edited September 25, 2020 by fastricky

['76mintgrün'02]

1 hour ago, fastricky said:

? Any reason to stick with this distributor? My inclination is to reenact the scene from Office Space with the copier.

 

SMASH that thing!  

(be sure to make a video to share)

 

(( I'd just wait for the new timing light to arrive ))

[fastricky]

1 minute ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

 

SMASH that thing!  

(be sure to make a video to share)

 

(( I'd just wait for the new timing light to arrive ))

 

Light won't be here until Monday, so figure I'll just play with rotating the distributor in the meantime...

Edited September 25, 2020 by fastricky

[fastricky]

So I learned that my 123 distributor is the switchable model. Which I'm somewhat happy about as the prospect of entering mapping etc I'm sure would have led to a lot of frustration as I figured out how to do that.

 

So being it was already set correctly, all I needed to do was mess with the timing and then idle and air mixture. I had to significantly advance the timing to get the "ball" to appear in the timing view hole consistently. Once I did that I had to tweak the idle and air mixture for a bit before the car idled smoothly and returned to the same idle rpm consistently. Tightened everything up and took the car for a long blast keeping the revs high so I could see how engine temp was now - huge improvement! Much cooler overall engine temp and smoother idle.

 

The big test will be trying to start the car from cold, but I'm very optimistic it'll be much better. Hoping my fuel economy improves too or at least doesn't fall as I was adjusting the air mixture screw in the tuna can by ear based on getting a the engine to run smoothly (supposedly I should be checking the CO2 to adjust correctly).

 

Supposedly turning the air mixture screw clockwise leans the fuel mix, but I found turning it in would increase idle speed... is it the other way around?

['76mintgrün'02]

22 minutes ago, fastricky said:

I had to significantly advance the timing to get the "ball" to appear in the timing view hole consistently.

 

BB in the hole at what rpm?

 

(the driver's side of the oval hole is the reference line, not the middle of the hole).

 

How much advance do you have at idle now?

What is your total advance?

 

Tom

[fastricky]

36 minutes ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

 

BB in the hole at what rpm?

 

(the driver's side of the oval hole is the reference line, not the middle of the hole).

 

How much advance do you have at idle now?

What is your total advance?

 

Tom

 

This was at idle (@900rpm).

['76mintgrün'02]

uh oh.  BB at 2700 for a Tii, no?  Or, is it 2400?

 

Check out this post from Mark on page one of this thread-- 

 

(quoting it here)

 

The blue book ignition values for a USA Tii are as follows.

 

1000 RPM - 0 to 4 degrees BTDC

1500 RPM - 10 to 14 degrees BTDC

2000 RPM - 15 to 20 degrees BTDC

2500 RPM - 21 to 26 degrees BTDC

2700 RPM - 25 degrees BTDC.

 

Based on these values, I would create a map in the 123 Ignition App that falls right in the middle of these values.

 

1000 RPM - 2 degrees BTDC

1500 RPM - 12 degrees BTDC

2000 RPM - 17 degrees BTDC

2500 RPM - 23 degrees BTDC

2700 RPM - 25 degrees BTDC

 

Then I would verify the map by setting/holding the idle at 2700 RPM and use a timing light to verify the flywheel steel ball in the viewing port.  If your TDC setup of the 123 Distributor was done correctly, the steel ball on the flywheel should be in the viewing port at 2700 RPM.  If it isn't, you can loosen the 10mm nut under the 123 distributor and slowly turn the distributor until the steel ball appears in the viewing port at 2700RPM.  If you have a variable timing light, you can verify the degrees of advance across the entire RPM range.  Once this is done, you can drive it around and see if you like the result.  Lots of other variables go into the proper tuning of your car, condition of ignition components, spark plug gap, octane levels, fuel delivery, barometric pressure, etc.  This ignition map is only the start, but it allows you to make adjustments that would be problematic on an OEM Tii distributor.

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

Mark92131

 

 

 

[fastricky]

Yes I'll try that tomorrow and thx for the suggestion, I am curious to see what I find as the car is running beautifully now... will report back!