2002's in USA

[Scottjeffrey]

Does anyone have the faintest idea of how many E10's are registered in the United States?

Than You,

Scott

Edited December 6, 2020 by Scottjeffrey

[TobyB]

0.

 

But I'll bet there are

 

42

 

2002's registered...

 

heh

 

t

 

[Scottjeffrey]

9 minutes ago, TobyB said:

0.

 

But I'll bet there are

 

42

 

2002's registered...

 

heh

 

t

 

What a Faux pas! Go ahead, guess, how many are registered? Clueless as to a figure.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Scottjeffrey

[Mike Self]

There were approximately 88000 2002s and approximately 12000 1600s sold in the US between 1966 and 1976; how many survive would be difficult to determine.  I suspect the survival percentage is higher than most makes of the same vintage, save specialty makes/models such as Porsches, Corvettes and several contemporary sports cars. 

 

Some years ago I saw the figure 15000 bandied about, but that was most likely a WAG, and was awhile ago, so that number has most likely decreased due to rust, accidents etc.  Think about how many folks have posted that their beloved '02 was totaled by some (unprintable)...  I'd feel reasonably sure to guess fewer than 10000, and perhaps fewer than that--but again, those are WAGs of my own.

 

mike

[visionaut]

Mike, I get the same total - right around 100,000 02 were originally imported here to the USA - adding up the Taylor/Macartney numbers (as good as they are).

 

My own swag at remaining, currently registered 02s in the US?  6000.

 

I think the 12000 number Mike referenced might've came from Les's 'master' spreadsheet of VINs. It also showed ~7500 "running" IIRC... Add further attrition.  Add a dash of my own latent perception based upon the 02s I've seen posted online (and a factor to cover those never seen there).

 

The youngest, like my own summer-of-'76 model ARE hitting 45 years old...  And 02s were very slow to become 'collectable' status, with many perishing 'like regular cars' before folks came to understand their value.

 

Tom

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by visionaut

[02Les]

USA 1600-2 & 1602 = 13,162

USA 2002 (all models) = 93,357 (acc to BMW) or 93,360 (acc to VINs)

So a total of 112,519 or 112,522

 

No clue how many maybe currently registered, but I think there are a lot more around than one would expect. I am currently down to two '02s, but one, while running, is not registered (I'll get a round tuit).

 

Since the boost in selling prices (helped by BAT Buyers & audience) '02s are popping up everywhere. '02s are being dragged out of fields, dusted off, and put on the market at ludicrous prices.

 

This year I've been adding 35~40 per month to my database, previous years it was maybe 20 at best/month. These are '02s with noted VINs; do not forget the ones littering Craigslist and facebook with no VIN stated.

 

Like I said, I think there's a lot out there, but, to guess a total.................

[Gordon]

Along the same lines, how many tii's are registered in the US? I have a spare KF pump from a tii that was parted and I'm sure others have tii parts from tii's that were parted out. If you owned an 02 in the 70's and lived in the Midwest and NE, by the mid 80's, your 02 had serious rust issues if it was driven year round.  As Mike said, a lot of 02's in these areas went to the crusher due to rust/collision damage.   I still think of the abundance of cheap 02's in the mid 90's in So Cal (In 1994, I bought a 74 2002 for $750 in LA county and drove it home with a good body).   In 2004, while working at Ramstein Air Base in Germany. I wanted to bring back a vintage Euro spec BMW. I found the cars were in two basic categories, very nice and out of my price range or total project cars, i.e. bottomless money pits so I passed.  The issue is, very few decent vintage daily drivers exist in Deutschland any more. Road salt, rust, cash for clunkers program, and strict TUV road worthiness inspections have taken there toll on old cars. In fact, your rarely see old cars on the roads anymore in Germany. In 2008, while working in Stuttgart, I went to the German E12/E28 meet in Bavaria near Mindleheim. Talking to the German E12/E28 club president, he estimated that there are probably less than a 1000 E12's left in Germany and a lot of them are project cars. If you want to go see old cars in Germany, a good place to go is the Nurburgring Historic races in August where owners bring their vintage cars. Euro vintage car collectors are importing vintage US spec BMW's, Porsche, MB's, etc.. back to Germany. Simple rule of supply and demand, supply of vintage cars is minimal in Europe but lots of vintage rust free cars exist in the US. Just look how crazy the vintage 911 market has become. A lot of Euro buyers are buying vintage Porsche's in the US and shipping them back to Germany.  You don't see vintage BMW's, Porsche, MB, etc... being driven in Germany but attend any classic car show in Germany, you'll see several. 
 

[visionaut]

1 hour ago, 02Les said:

This year I've been adding 35~40 per month to my database, previous years it was maybe 20 at best/month

Hey Les - is that 35-40 Edits, or real Additions (tally new entries) per month?  Isn't some percentage of your monthly 'updates' of sales and change of hands of VINs you've already got some prior entry for?

 

400+ previously unknown 02s coming out of the blue (or field/barn) per year nowadays would surely skew my swag upwards! Like Gordon says, folks have caught on..

 

You da man..

 

Tom

[02Les]

23 minutes ago, visionaut said:

Hey Les - is that 35-40 Edits, or real Additions (tally new entries) per month?  Isn't some percentage of your monthly 'updates' of sales and change of hands of VINs you've already got some prior entry for?

 

400+ previously unknown 02s coming out of the blue (or field/barn) per year nowadays would surely skew my swag upwards! Like Gordon says, folks have caught on..

 

You da man..

 

Tom

 

Hi Tom,

 

That's 35~40 new-to-me VINs (new entries). It's raining '02s!!

Maybe it'll quiet down for Christmas.

[visionaut]

Okay, so my swag (super wild assed guess) is now 7500 currently registered US cars! Lol

[TobyB]

We have 2, currently.

The race car has a vin that I don't believe.

 

I have personally scrapped a dozen heaps,

and sold several more cars.

 

Based on that survey of one, I'd bet that 1/10th of

the imported 2002/1606/ etc are out there somewhere.

Of those 12,000, I suspect maybe 8,000 or so are 'real cars'

that could be on the road with only a bit of work, or a twist of the key.

 

I do so love an unanswerable question!

 

And I'll bet that in the midwest/northeast, the 'survival ratio' is more like 1:50.

 

t

salty

[HBChris]

My guess would be much higher, perhaps 30%.  That is the ballpark survival rate for e9s in the US as I keep a database much like Les and they are much more prone to rust.

[jgerock]

It still surprises me how many 2002’s surface around the VA/MD/DC area.  

[saaron]

I subscribe to the “there are more out there than we think” theory.  I mean, all of us in RGB know exactly where all the 02s are in KY/IN/OH...until one passes one of us on the road, or pops up in a barn or local parking lot.  And we all freak out...”WHO IS THAT!?!?”  An 02 sold in Louisville or Lexington - a tii no less, that none of us had ever SEEN.  

 

The other thing I know is that when I take my car to Vintage, I have the 11th nicest roundie Verona tii.  There must be 5000 of those left...

 

The way to science it out (at least a little) would be to estimate where they were sold (how many in Chicago, Boston, LA, SF, etc), and then estimate survival rates in each place.  You could probably find some way of knowing where the dealers locations were in the ‘70s.  That would give you the basis for an estimate of where they were sold, and in what quantities.  

 

Then estimate survival rates for each geography, then add it all up for the estimate.  You could do ranges for everything to see how the range changes with changes in the other variables.  

 

Scott

[HBChris]

Unfortunately dealer info from the Hoffman era through Dec 1974 is long gone.  BMWNA from 75 and on might have had some info but they won’t spend any resources without a business case and a ROI.