First Time Poster with a dumb question about VIN #s

[AlfaBMWGuy]

Now I took the time to read through the 4-page FAQ thread.  This is an interesting link that was posted inside that thread giving you an even better idea on the state of this car at least at one point and time: http://davidsclassiccars.com/bmw/230190-1972-bmw-2002tii-roundie-atlantik-blue-no-reserve-nr-matching-numbers.html

 

I believe that was taken from a "full disclosure" eBay listing (don't find those very often).

[Dugan27]

This was the third car in the mix, but not sure I can get over the faux turbo look; not that I don't like the look, but don't like dressing up cars to looks like something they aren't. Would not have to deal with shipping. 

 

https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/cto/d/miami-1973-bmw-2002-euro-spec/7370191107.html

 

Found this one as well

https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars/1971/bmw/2002/101595440 Which is right by my inlaws house and have people that could go look over it for me. 

 

Obviously neither is a Tii but I'm not so hung up on that. 

 

[jp5Touring]

I dont mind either car at a glance.  The white one you could lose the spoiler stripe easy and I would remove the roll cage

also. Cage is just a cheap bolt in but can be dangerous in a street car. Smack your head on that one time would be all it takes.

Would need to see the underside of it and the suspension first. Needs air filters also. Like the look though.

 

Red car looks nice at a glance also and more stock. Paint is almost to shiny, curious  whats underneath. 

Neither is cheap.  

 

[jp5Touring]

This just popped up.

 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1968-bmw-2002-7/

[AlfaBMWGuy]

@Dugan27, did you give up on the Atlantik '72 tii  out of Portland?  Did you ever contact the seller?  There are lots of hints that at least at the $44.5K BaT selling price, it wasn't a good buy and highly likely misrepresented to put it in the most favorable light possible while not disclosing any number of issues.  The biggest hint I think is that it didn't even turn out to be the car that the BaT buyer was hoping for even though he tried to assure other commenters he bought it with eyes wide open.  At some reduced price though, it may make sense for someone (probably someone with a lot of 2002 experience doing a decent portion of the work themselves) to take it on since easily a '72 tii done right is a $50K car these days.  Plus, with this one, I think the buyer would need eyes on the car and not even a PPI from a trusted, knowledgeable resource would give the confidence needed to take the plunge.  Sounds like you are in FL on the complete opposite side of the country from this tii?  Finally, at your apparent price point, not focusing on a tii makes the most sense (as you indicated in another reply).  You might squeak into a solid '74 tii, but with a '72 or '73, I think you will just be finding these cars that are wonky.

 

-Gary

Edited September 10, 2021 by AlfaBMWGuy

[Dugan27]

Looked at the two new options today, one in person in Miami and one with my brother in law's help in Chicago (he knows cars far better than I do).

 

First the white one:

https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/cto/d/miami-1973-bmw-2002-euro-spec/7370191107.html

Pros: 

Body seems in good shape

Minimal rust and no detectable bondo on body or frame (used the Macartney book to hit all likely places and also most other places)

Nice interior

Motor vin matches body **see below**

Starts, drives, shifts well

 

Cons:

There was no VIN on the body other than the riveted on plate (see photos)

Car was imported from Bogotá, Colombia (he has a warehouse full of nice cars) 

When started from cold a good visible spark jumped from the middle of the motor forward 

Steering was hard; much harder than the other 2002 I test drove

Brakes were soft and squeaked badly

Took a good two seconds to start from cold

Hood was hard to close; little roller lever had to really wail on it

passenger door was hard to close

Rear tires seem precariously close to the fenders

Black 'grease' looking stuff inside rear fenders on both sides; owner says it's built up tire shire (hmmmm)

Wonky roll cage

Motor seemed to wobble (?) at least more than the red mystery mobile (see vid)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5fk2fsseyrzbn9h/IMG_8788.MOV?dl=0

 

 

The Red One: (second hand from BIL)

https://www.nsclassics.com/1971-bmw-2002-restored-german-classic-see-video-c-5067.htm

Pros:

No rust, virtually no bondo 

Started up easily from cold with a little gas

"mostly seems all original"

Great interior

More stock looking

 

Cons:

"pretty good oil leak dripping onto the exhaust, need to get that fixed or it'll be a drivability problem

Motor vin number missing but has "X              X" where VIN should be; Remanufactured??

No strut brace....not sure how important this is

 

More to come on this one I will edit. 

[Dugan27]

Engine vin on the red illinois car:

 

 

FYI this car was owned by a member of the Knauz family which is a fairly large auto dealer in illinois. They are selling it on consignment. 

 

Finally there's this one:

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/bmw/2002tii/2517551.html 

 

If I can get it down in price, I may go after it. 

[ray_]

I'd pass on the white car. Too many "interesting" mods. 

 

The spark may be due to a bad chassis to block ground cable, or something.

 

The red car looks not too bad other than the engine bay paint. And the high price ;-)

 

The restored tii looks good, other than the later wheels which never came on a roundie.

 

Cheers,

[Dugan27]

Can anyone give any info on what the "X      X" Vin marking on the motor for the red car might indicate?

[AlfaBMWGuy]

4 minutes ago, Dugan27 said:

Can anyone give any info on what the "X      X" Vin marking on the motor for the red car might indicate?

 

I'm pretty certain that a blank chassis number stamping indicates it's a factory replacement engine, not originally installed in a car coming off the production line.  From what I remember reading here on the FAQ, it seemed like these were typically engines produced in the 1980s.  I'm not certain though whether those factory engines have the "X         X" stamp though or a completely blank area so I didn't reply when you originally asked this thinking someone with more knowledge would step in.

 

-Gary

[Conserv]

19 hours ago, Dugan27 said:

Can anyone give any info on what the "X      X" Vin marking on the motor for the red car might indicate?

It’s a replacement short or long block. It simply means the car no longer has its original engine. This is a big deal if your ultimate vision for this acquisition is a “numbers-matching” car restored to factory stock condition. But if that’s not your goal, it’s either a minor deal or a big nothing!

 

The engine and head will have casting dates that fill in some of the history.

 

 

Regards,

 

Steve

PS: I’m late — what Gary^ said above!

 

 

[Nicoya02]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2960993944172030/

 

Try this restored California tii for 38k. Better option than any you've listed ?

[Dugan27]

6 hours ago, Conserv said:

It’s a replacement short or long block. It simply means the car no longer has its original engine. This is a big deal if your ultimate vision for this acquisition is a “numbers-matching” car restored to picture-perfect stock condition. But if that’s not your goal, it’s either a minor deal or a big nothing!

 

The engine and head will have casting dates that fill in some of the history.

 

 

Regards,

 

Steve

PS: I’m late — what Gary^ said above!

 

 

Thank you both, that's what I figured from reading previous posts. 

[AlfaBMWGuy]

2 hours ago, Nicoya02 said:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2960993944172030/

 

Try this restored California tii for 38k. Better option than any you've listed ?

In my opinion, with increases in roundie prices on BringATrailer over the past couple years, especially tii's but even really nice early non-tii's, one of the few remaining sweet spots in the '02 market are '74 tii's.  Getting top condition ones under $40K represents a bargain to me when the same condition tii in a roundie can be 50%+ more.  A '74 tii or a roundie carb'd 2002 seem to be in the same price ballpark for similar overall condition and that's a big part of why I jumped on a '74 tii this summer given the rarity of tiis and the extra performance in stock specification. Given where tii prices have been headed, it seemed like I might be forever priced out of a tii in the not distant future with what I could justify (since I want to have a little variety in vintage cars, not a single car or make).

Edited September 23, 2021 by AlfaBMWGuy

[Charles in PA]

@Dugan27, hi, others here likely know this site well but I stumbled here - https://www.2002ad.com/pages/carsforsale.cfm - after exhausting the usual places to search. The 73tii in Golf was appealing to me but everyone has their own tastes.  Another thought may be through your local BMW mechanic if you have one.  That's how I found my 74tii earlier this year after years of looking.  He did service from time to time on the car and knew the owner was getting ready to sell.  You just never know where one might turn up but I am sure your 02 out there waiting for you.  Good luck in your search.  Cheers, Charles