Do you know this '71 Tii swap with Scottish flags?

[MrSisyphus]

First time caller, long time lurker! 

 

tl;dr, my partner picked up this '71 2002 with a Tii engine swap fourish years ago from a guy/dealer in Santa Barbara. He was sparse on the details on the history of the car, but apparently, the prior owner passed away while the project was ongoing. Scottish flag on the fender and on the sunroof. She (my human) had it towed home to San Francisco, promptly had the Kfish rebuilt and exhaust replaced by H&B, and it's sat in a rented garage ever since. Work got in the way, and I don't think she realized it was as big a project as it was.

 

Fast forward to now. We're finally relocating to a place where we can tear into it, and it'd be great to know a little more about the history of the car (or rather, the motor) to help with plans. The body is in good shape with minor frame rail rust, a comp test on the lump says it's solid (170-175 across all cylinders), nor does it burn anything. It runs, but I suspect it needs the dizzy rebuilt or replaced, as it idles poorly, backfires on decel, and I feel like it's lacking quite a bit of power. So then my head starts spinning up M20 or M42 swap dreams...anyway, curious if anyone out there knows this car or its history? I would imagine it spent its time in SoCal. Total shot in the dark, I know. 

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by UncleMakhno
picture!

[Conserv]

Welcome!

 

In the absence of any history on the engine post-factory, you can easily find out its birth story by examining the engine block’s number — same as the VIN of the car in which it was originally installed — and casting date, as well as the head type and its casting date.

 

If you’re requesting data on the engine from BMW Group Archives, ask at the same time for their data on the chassis.

 

info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com

 

Here’s an article that will help with the engine’s birth story:

 

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[Mike G]

I can’t contribute to the history of the car, but before sinking money into it one way or the other identify your goals for the car then spend accordingly. A well tuned tii engine is more than enough for the run from Alice’s to half moon bay. If you’re more of a straight line torque kind of driver the M20 is a good choice. New throttle linkages, a 123 distributor and an afr gauge might convince to stay with motor you have. 

[jgerock]

Since lots of folks here like history lessons, how about sharing the chassis and engine VIN.  Short numbers are easy to remember.   Personally, I’d keep the tii engine.  Perhaps there are some hoses that need replacement - the main one is the hidden make up air hose from the KF pump to the bottom of the intake manifold.  If the tii engine has plastic intake runners, those could be leaking, causing poor running conditions.

[02Les]

Can’t help with motor history, but….

Car was reportedly registered in CA in 2001 then GA in 2003.

Was on Ebay in 2007 in Bonsall, CA.

Then Craigslist Seller (Sporting Cars of Santa Barbara) in Buellton, CA, 2017-2018.

Car was originally Granada.

 

 

[Mike Self]

Interesting...it's a six fuse car, so suspect the VIN is a 166/167XXXX (pre modell 71 built prior to April 1971), presuming of course it's a US car and isn't a 1600 (that would be a 156/157XXXX VIN.  It appears to have the correct welded-on tii air cleaner bracket support, so there's an outside chance that it's a very early Euro tii--but that's (probably) precluded by the snorkel on the nose panel (unless of course the nose has been replaced).  Sooooo many variables and things that could have happened to the car over the past 50 or so years.  

 

If the engine number begins with 276 it's from a roundie US tii; a 278XXXX VIN would be a '74 US tii.  

 

And just to muddy the waters, it appears to have the "shallow" grilles used only on US spec late 72s and all 73s, and the two-color Italy-only front parking/turn signal assemblies.  

 

Car and engine numbers would be most helpful in figuring out this car!

 

cheers

mike

[TobyB]

And since I haven't said this yet this month-

 

figure out how much rust it has.  

 

Then go from there.

 

Because they all have rust- how much will help

guide you as to whether you should throw the 

best of the best of the best, sir, into it, or just

mitigate the worst, and drive it happily,

 

t

 

[JsnPpp]

Block number will be interesting for sure.

Les, you never cease to surprise me. Your list of cars is exhaustive.

[eviction_party]

Still in SF? Try and stop by the NK&K next weekend!

 

[Conserv]

Mike,

 

All tii’s, from the first one manufactured in April 1971, are Modell 71 cars. The better conversions to tii power received airbox brackets transplanted from bona fide tii’s. With its aluminum intake runners, I anticipate the engine number is likely to be equal to or higher than 2761944, the first U.S.-spec tii with an E12 head and aluminum runners.

 

The plenum does not have the extra port between the first and second runners for the vacuum limiter valve found on 1974 models. This suggests it’s pre-2780001.

 

Clearly, heads and runners can be switched — heck, non-tii blocks are easily converted to tii blocks. But, by the odds, I’m guessing the engine — assuming it is an original tii block, and came out of a U.S.-spec tii — will have a number from 2761944 through 2764521.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[MrSisyphus]

Well, this is certainly more of a response than I expected, thanks y'all! 

 

Nasty bits out of the way first: VIN is 1678304. Either I can't find the block number (as referenced the guide), or it's been ground off. At least, it certainly looks like someone took a file to where it once was. Once we're situated in the new place in about a month I can get a better look. 

 

11 hours ago, Mike G said:

I can’t contribute to the history of the car, but before sinking money into it one way or the other identify your goals for the car then spend accordingly. A well tuned tii engine is more than enough for the run from Alice’s to half moon bay. If you’re more of a straight line torque kind of driver the M20 is a good choice. New throttle linkages, a 123 distributor and an afr gauge might convince to stay with motor you have. 

 

That's certainly where I'm at. It'll never be a daily - Sunday driver at best. Right now my head is in the "restomod" camp. I'd like to get the motor running reasonably well before ditching the idea of keeping it, but I do loves me some torque (former E30 325is and current '04 VW R32 owner). And the siren song of being able to go nuts without having to do the smog dance is strong.

 

3 hours ago, 02Les said:

Can’t help with motor history, but….

Car was reportedly registered in CA in 2001 then GA in 2003.

Was on Ebay in 2007 in Bonsall, CA.

Then Craigslist Seller (Sporting Cars of Santa Barbara) in Buellton, CA, 2017-2018.

Car was originally Granada.

 

 

 

 

 

wha...wha how...THIS IS AMAZING. mind, blown. Yeah, Buellton is where she picked it up.

 

1 hour ago, TobyB said:

And since I haven't said this yet this month-

 

figure out how much rust it has.  

 

Then go from there.

 

Because they all have rust- how much will help

guide you as to whether you should throw the 

best of the best of the best, sir, into it, or just

mitigate the worst, and drive it happily,

 

t

 

 

I've attached the worst of the known rust from when H&B had it on the lift ~4 years ago. It's been in a garage ever since, but...you know. Rails, spare tire well. It also needs paint - the blue that went over the Granada is peeling in places, it wasn't masked well, and the passenger side door is all primer. It's tempting to strip it, do the rust repairs, and send it out for a full body repaint. 

 

36 minutes ago, eviction_party said:

Still in SF? Try and stop by the NK&K next weekend!

 

 

Tempting! It's a bit of a trek from SF with the car as it is - but we're only moving across the Bay, so I'll be around.

Edited March 10, 2022 by UncleMakhno

[danco_]

I can't confirm it, but you might have the larger "Turbo" radiator installed in this blue car. 

 

 

I have a 71 2002 with all the tii bits as well. I bought mine out of the bay area a few years ago. 

 

Use this photo to compare how your car was swapped and what is similar/dissimilar in the engine bay.

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by danco_

[Son of Marty]

If there is no vin stamped on the block that engine might be a factory rebuild which makes sense if the original owner was a dealer I could see this as his go to source for a engine, Just a guess but worth thinking about.

[Mike Self]

4 hours ago, Conserv said:

All tii’s, from the first one manufactured in April 1971, are Modell 71 cars.

Thanks for yet another tidbit--Ii thought maybe some very early Euro tii's were still 6 fuse pre-modell 71 cars.  Good to know info.  

 

Couple of things about the car:  if there are numbers that don't jibe with regular BMW VIN/motor numbers (they matched from the factory) then it may well be a factory remanufactured engine--somewhere on the FAQ is a breakdown of how to read those letters/numbers.  If the motor number boss is blank, then it's definitely been messed with.   There are dates cast into both the head and the block, which can give you a good idea of the year of the car the motor came from.  Again, how to read the casting dates is on the FAQ. 

 

The head will also be labeled as either a 121ti or E12, both cast into the intake side of the head, just under the valve cover.  And if the mechanical fuel pump location (intake side, just behind the front timing cover) is blocked off with a plate, then the head came from a non-tii.  

 

Interesting little mystery...

 

And the driver's side frame rail rust--bet that's from a leaking master cylinder.  The leaking brake fluid runs down inside the frame rail, pools at the after end and rusts it away.  

 

mike

[AceAndrew]

Tony?  If so, bout time you posted.  Hope all is well.