New member hello and new project

[attilars]

Hi all,

 

I've been a long time BMW fan with various E30s and M3s in the past, but had sold the last 2 I had about a few years ago (an '88 E30 M3 that I had restored  and '08 E90 M3 I had since new). The newer models haven't really interested me and I have been casually looking for a new project car over the last year or so. I've always done most of the work myself and enjoy that just as much as the drive.

 

A few weeks ago, driving through my neighborhood I happened to spot a white 2002 behind a gate that looked a bit tired and had a flat tire. I decided to stop by and ask if the owner had any plans for it and if he would consider selling. It turns out the owner was just thinking about selling and it was a '74 2002tii. He has a few other project cars as well and just doesn't think he is going to get to the 2002 anytime soon. It's condition is also beyond his ability, but he was hesitant to sell thinking it may end up getting parted out. 

 

He let me take a quick look at it then. It didn't look too bad through the gate from the back, but as I got closer to it I quickly realized this car was definitely in need of some love. He bought it in 1986 and it was in a minor collision in 1992 where the top front of the car was damaged. It was never repaired and has sat since. Right now it has no front on it at all or hood, but otherwise is mostly complete. He also has lots of various spare parts in a shed he had collected over the years in the hopes of some day putting it back together. Most of its life it was in a garage, but the last few years unfortunately it has sat outside. I pulled the plugs and put a little oil in each cylinder, let it sit overnight and then confirmed the engine turned over easily by hand. I checked around for rust, and although it is nearly everywhere, most appears to be just traces and surface rust and the only major spots are at the base of the rear window.

 

After thinking about it a few day, getting an idea of parts availability, values and getting a ballpark on what it would take to properly clean up the rust, I decided to buy it. Tires held enough air and it rolled well enough that we pushed it about the half mile to my house.

 

I was originally thinking it would likely be a regular 2002 and I would have perhaps built some kind of restomod with a engine swap. Once I found it was a tii that changed a bit and I now plan to keep the engine. I emailed BMW classic to get any info they can share on the cars original state. I'm not too sure yet exactly what direction I will take it. I'm fairly certain I will strip everything down and rebuild from there, but not too sure at this point exactly what direction I will go.

 

Below are a few pics and here is a link to various pics taken so far: https://photos.app.goo.gl/y3McABLk73M7U7cx8

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will likely dump the US bumpers, not sure if they are even worth keeping at this point.

 

There was an extra fuel tank added in the trunk that I will likely get rid of as well. Not sure it is worth anything to anyone.

 

It will likely be at least a year before I get to the point where I am building much back up and will just be slowly pulling things apart for a while and deciding which way to go. I've been looking at various builds by others and just reading about various aspects of the car. 

 

The owner had a spare front end and hood, but both have some rust and dings and it is likely better of just replacing them with new parts. Same with the front fenders.

 

Let me know what direction you guys would take with the car. At this point I think it is likely I will sell it a couple years after it is finished, but who knows maybe I'll end up really loving it and will keep it longer. Like most of us, I only have so much room for cars and often when one project completes I soon get the itch to find another.

 

[TobyB]

Oh, yeah.

 

You got yourself a project there.

 

t

keeps his

[ray_]

Based on the tyre wear, I think the steering linkage needs attention.

 

;-)

 

2782499

1974

1974

2002tii

Saloon

Manual

Sunroof

running

Chamonix

Blue

for sale Mar '84

Harry Xxxxx, Jr (orig Owner)

Loma Linda

CA

[BarneyT]

Welcome to the club. Hope the price was right, it’s needs a fair amount of time/money/work but has good bones and is well worth saving…not sure about the extra fuel tank sure there’s a story, but the rust I see is fixable and from setting out in weather and not from salt.     Barney

[attilars]

20 minutes ago, ray_ said:

Based on the tyre wear, I think the steering linkage needs attention.

 

?

Yeah, funny, I was thinking that as well when I was going through it. Just needs that and about a million other things.

[Tommy]

Body seems to be in really good condition regarding typical rust issues. You should now figure out if you're ready for full body restoration now, with going through all the mechanicals, or just get the front end fixed and worry about the looks later on. The body looks so good it deserves high quality repair for damage. Now it would be easy to get rid of the heavy bumper mounts at front if you decide going that route.

I'm thinking euro look with everything else original would be the way to go with a tii, but nice period correct alu wheels, mild lowering, 5-speed and better seats and steering wheel that you already have isn't wrong either.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Tommy

[Stevenc22]

Good news is square tails are cheaper and easier to restore. Bad news is tii are more expensive to restore with many unique parts. Buy a reproduction front end and get the basic body work done first. You can't do much until you have the front end back together. 

[jgerock]

Those seats are incredible for something that has sat for a long time!

[jgerock]

Aftermarket sunroof?

[attilars]

Based on history I suspected it had the matching engine, but this morning I quickly cleaned up the stamping to take a look and sure enough it is matching.

 

I'll definitely be doing a full body restoration. Certainly it will cost a lot more, but just doesn't feel right to do it halfway. I'll keep pulling things apart and inventory as I go on what can be restored vs what needs to be replaced.

 

Previous owner gave me a hood as well that is straight and not so bad on the outside, but inside looks less good and has quite a bit of surface rust. Several sections have braces that have separated from the outer skin and there is rust between them as well. Not sure if it is worth the effort to try and save it or find another in better condition. 

 

[0257]

Welcome to the faq.  Love your new challenge.  My two cents: with the front panels off, and likely lots of attention needed to the suspension/steering, you may as well pull the front subframe off, engine, tranny and all.  2002s are fairly unusual this way, and it’s a trick used (and documented) by some of the faq’ers.  It can be done with tall jackstands and rolling jacks, though a lift and a dolly are ideal.  Much easier to redo all that stuff, and to get the frame/body straightened and repaired, with all that out.  I would give plenty of attention to frame geometry, be sure it’s correct — lots of little problems come from even slightly bent stuff.  Gives your painter a better shot at the engine compartment and underbody too.  You may know all this.  I would not have without this forum.

 

Of course, you may want to do some engine diagnostics while it’s all still on the car, to determine whether a rebuild is in order.  My car, Zouave (also a ‘74tii)  had sat for 17 years without starting, and the engine was fine.  But no time better to do major work than when it’s on the bench.  

 

Looking at Wheeler Dealers Season 12, Episode 4 (I think) will not help an experienced mechanic (which it sounds like you are), but it might amuse.  Zouave’s initial resurrection is featured there.  Most interesting bit is where Edd tries to start the engine and gas pours out through the dried-up suction valve o-rings.  If he had been a forum member he might have known how prone those are to leaking on tiis that haven’t been started in a while.

 

Remarkably, your car appears to have the same vomit-blue carpet that Zouave sported when I bought it (not to mention matching seats!).  Mike and Edd thought it was “loovely”, but, well… Mike and Edd.  That had to go in favor of one of Esty’s (faq member) very reasonably priced carpet sets in a more subdued tone.  The seats were recovered in fairly matching blue by Aardvark.

You can take that car in any number of directions, but I think your instincts are correct: there’s a lot to love about a well-restored tii, and numbers-matching ones are not getting any less valuable (fingers crossed).

[Mike Self]

Hoo doggies!  Nice barn-find-without-the-barn!  Back here in salt country we'd go absolutely wild over one that nice that's been sitting outside for so long.   

 

With a July '74 build date, and by its VIN it's one of the last 500 off the assembly line (last one was 2782928).

 

And welcome to the 02 fraternity/sorority!

 

And Jim, you beat me to the aftermarket sunroof comment!  Don't think it's a Golde, looks more like a metal Webasto that unlatches and then slides (vs cranks) back.  Bet that's its original Michelin XAS spare too, not to mention a very nice pair of aftermarket front seats and steering wheel, with the rest of the interior needing not much more than a good cleanup.  

 

The hood is probably worth saving, as the inner reinforcement isn't attached to the outer skin except around the crimped-over edges.  And if the crimped lip on the inside isn't rusted, it's definitely good.  Hopefully the nose panel is for a squarelight, as the one on roundies is different due to different grilles. 

 

Definitely worth doing a good restoration; squarelight tii's are a one-year car, and the lowest production of any US variant.  I'm sure you'll pull the glass as part of the task, as there may well be small rust holes under the backlight and windshield gakets, which will cause no end of troubles if left unrepaired. 

 

Keep us informed on your progress, and don't be shy with your questions.  Lotsa expertise here on the FAQ, and we're happy to share our knowledge.

 

mike

[ray_]

4 hours ago, 0257 said:

 

 

Of course, you may want to do some engine diagnostics while it’s all still on the car, to confirm that a rebuild is in order., because it is.

 

 The seats were recovered in fairly matching blue by Aardvarc.

Fixed that for you, Ken

 

BTW CF hoods are available.

 

Cheers,

[attilars]

Thanks everyone for the comments and advice. Will definitely be stripping down to just the body shell so I can clean that up properly and have a good starting point.

 

Engine will get rebuilt as well. I know there is a good chance it would run ok with just some minimal work, but I enjoy the work and want to do it. Also I don't expect finding parts will become any easier, so best to get it all sorted now.

 

Suspension, brakes, steering, ... will also get fully pulled apart, cleaned up and the reassembled. Not sure yet on specifics for brakes/suspension, but that's a fairly easy part. 

 

Interior I'll have to think about more. A lot of it is in decent condition, but seats don't match the door panels and I don't really love either shade of blue that much. Dash is cracked in a few places, so will need to decide how to redo it. The fake food around the instrument cluster is also pretty awful in my opinion, but that's pretty minor.

 

I'll likely start by dropping suspensions/subframes/engine/trans/... Get engine on a stand. Then start to strip down the interior, get it stored in a safe place inside while I decide what to do and then pull off the remaining trims/electrical/... I'll build a simple frame with casters for the body, so I can still move it around as needed. 

 

I was going to start a build thread in a separate section, but looks like the build section is setup for just individual blog posts. Is that the prefered method for this forum vs a single long build thread?

[Tommy]

It sounds that you have your plan sorted and you have the knowledge and experience to pull it through. The car looks really good template for full rebuild. I'd hope to see the blog. You can also use the old blogs section called project blogs archive if you prefer that format (like I do). The posts on the new blogs section are somehow linked together but I still find it confusing.