FMVSS Sticker Question

[HBChris]

Michael Hand was the buyer who imported it and took it to a shop for federalization, it is not a BMW sticker.

[BritshIron]

Thanks so much, HBChris. This information begins to unravel this mystery. Do you know if the shop Michael Hand used was in Germany, or the USA? I'm still keenly interested as to who and how the FMVSS label was created. No big deal, but I'm sure you understand, I'm very keen on the provenance of this car. Do your know whether Michael Hand created the FMVSS label under the provisions of https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/fmvss-quickrefguide-hs811439.pdf, section, or part Part 567: Certification? Or the subsequent section Part 568? Sorry to be such a geek, but this stuff is really interesting to me, especially since I own the car! Thanks very much for your wisdom and knowledge. Much aloha, Robert

[BritshIron]

Fascinating, @ Mark92131. Do your have examples of FMVSS labels that are similar to mine? So far, the FAQ chorus has said that this FMVSS label was created by an exporter or importer who was willing to certify that this Baur Voll Cabriolet was in compliance with the FMVSS of the time. Most responders have suggested the label was a genuine BMW label, but perhaps "ordered" or somehow made available by a third party importer. Your further remarks will be really helpful to me. My life's an open book! RPS

[HBChris]

Robert,  the buyer doesn’t create anything, the shop has to be in the US or it would be needless.  Those stickers are generic, not BMW, they were usually applied to the driver side B pillar below the door latch by the shop that did the certification.  In CA that would have been approved by the CARB. 

[Mark92131]

18 hours ago, BritshIron said:

Your further remarks will be really helpful to me. My life's an open book! RPS

 

I am in agreement with @HBChris that your car was imported by Michael Hand and was sent to an authorized Federalization shop, (possibly owned by Michael Hand) for certification.  That shop, like the shop that Federalized @Einspritz turbo, had their own stickers that they used to indicate that the car had been modified or inspected to comply with FMVSS.

 

I imported my former 1600 Cabriolet from Belgium taking advantage of a loophole that allowed me to secure a New York title for the car and subsequently re-titled and an registered in CA.  It never had any FMVSS stickers.

 

Mark92131

[BritshIron]

Thanks, @HBChris and @Mark92131. I'm starting to get this now, through my too thick and too old skull! What you are saying basically matches the input from @Einspritz  and @Mark92131, above. (Beautiful car, Mark. Love the color! Ha!).  Sometime back in the day, and likely still today, there were companies who specialized in assuring the US Import officials that cars coming in the US were compliant with the FMVSS that were applicable in the year of manufacture. It was such a company that produced the odd-ball FMVSS labels, such as mine and the one above from @Einspritz. 

 

I wrote Andreas Hartz of the BMW Group Classic Archives, hoping BMW may have some additional information. See his answer below in quotes. They don't have any information on the export of this car. So all this is starting to make sense.

 

My next question is: Is there a way of knowing, or a good guess, as to when this car was exported/imported by observing the FMVSS label? I can only assume it was sometime before the car was 25 years old, since there would have been no need to get the FMVSS certification if the import was grandfathered anyway. I suppose the car could have been shop-readied with an FMVSS label because of a State requirement (like CA or HI) but that seems unlikely in my case, since CA aftermarket FMVSS shop labels seem to all mention CARB, and Hawaii's law on this matter is fairly recent. I'd very much like your opinion on "Date of Import" for my car to Michael Hand in the US, if you're willing to make a guess or state a fact. Or maybe there's a way to find out through contacting a government agency?

 

I also note that Carl Nelson's Baur voll cabriolet car, which has an authentic FMVSS from BMW, shows the FMVSS label as having been from a car certified for the 1970 model year, and Carl's car is a 1970.  See Carl's FMVSS silver sticker below, and the Katie Perry picture of his car that makes everyone smile! Carl's car has been referred to as a "Black Swan" in that no one else can find a BMW Baur voll cabriolet that was specifically imported by BMW into the US market. But it sure seems like my car was legally imported into the US, albeit not by BMW per se. Thus my interest in the year this car was imported.

 

See Andreas Harz's comments below. My guess is the car was imported by Michael Hand from the BMW employee/first owner, but it's just a guess. Any more thoughts? You guys are great! Thanks for your kindness, and patience! Aloha, Robert

 

"Dear Robert,

 

I'm afraid we can only put our own data in the birth certificate, only the data that we have in our delivery books and that means nothing after February 12th, 1971 when the car was delivered to its first owner - a BMW employee in Munich. Production date will be mentioned as December 4th, 1970.

 

The placard must be a market-specific thing, I haven't seen one before so I can't say anything about it. It might be a good idea to ask around in the club scene in the US, there should be people that had the same problem and can offer a solution. https://bmwccca.com/ should be the right address here.

 

Hope this helps,

Andreas Harz

 

BMW Group Classic

BMW Group Archiv"

[Son of Marty]

For what it's worth Carl had that (or one just like it) car in Seattle when he ran Road Sport in the mid 70's

[BritshIron]

Do you mean the white "Katie Perry" car, or the Polaris car? Carl still has the Chamonix car, of course, but I think he sold/bartered the Polaris car to John and Wendy Driscoll back in 1993, according the records he sent me. Let me know which one you saw in the mid-70's. Small world! Mahalo! Robert

[Son of Marty]

The car was white, I really can't say for sure it's the same car I'd ask Carl.

[BritshIron]

@Son of Marty Thank you. I'm sure it was the "Katie Perry"car. It would have really interested me if it was the Polaris car back in the 1970s, but no big deal. Mahalo! Robert

[HBChris]

That is not an FMVSS sticker on Carl’s cab, it is the DOT/EPA sticker affixed to all US BMWs since 69 or 70. It provided timing info and year of manufacture to meet DOT/EPA requirements.  The FMVSS sticker would have been on driver door.  

[BritshIron]

@HBChris For a label geek, your comments are revolutionary! Ha! So, is it your thought that none of these silver BMW labels were actually a FMVSS certification label, or only a label required for import? If am reading your comments correctly, are you saying the only US federal safety standards placards would have been in the door jam position you mention?

 

Again, I confess to being a label and numbers wacko. But in reviewing the FMVSS requirements, it seems that all vehicles sold in the US as legal imports would have been required to have a label showing FMVSS certification. I note the only thing close to such a certification label is under the hood on my 1600-2, an early “Federalized” import. No other door jam label is present.
 

Thanks again for your response and, in advance, for your return input. My thought is that Carl’s silver label was positioned under the hood in 1970, and perhaps later similar labels were changed in position to the door jam. Some owners report the label was on their cars in two places, both under the hood and in the door jam.

 

I’m still pretty sure my FMVSS compliance label was the only such label on my 1968 1600-2, and it is under the hood, as shown above.  However, on my 1971 (built in 1970) cabriolet, I think the FMVSS label was affixed in the door jam, and is a label produced by a company who provided the certification after-the-fact. I’m very interested in all of your thoughts to my questions and comments above. Mahalo! Robert P. Smith , BMW hobbyist! Aloha!

 

 

[Conserv]

9 hours ago, HBChris said:

 

That is not an FMVSS sticker on Carl’s cab, it is the DOT/EPA sticker affixed to all US BMWs since 69 or 70. It provided timing info and year of manufacture to meet DOT/EPA requirements…

 

+1

 

The earliest versions of the DOT/EPA “tuning” stickers appeared with the 1968 model year. But they improved over time. The 1968 stickers don’t mention the actual model year. The 1969 stickers might have said something like “applicable in the year of manufacture” without stating a model year. It’s hazy. And around 1970, they finally stated the model year on the sticker, as on Carl’s cab — I’m guessing his sticker is original, although many of us (🙄) have repros by now.

 

VIN 1560629, with which you are certainly familiar, manufactured September 28, 1967, still has its original 1968 model year sticker (first photo below)! And VIN 1660482, manufactured March 15, 1968, still has its original 1968 model year sticker (second photo below).

 

You’ll know better, but I suspect that the tuning sticker, and the A/C service sticker on your 1560629 were removed and replaced as part of an earlier re-paint. I’d bet your tuning sticker started its life in the right end of the heater/defroster plenum as you see on VIN 1660482, and all subsequent U.S.-spec ‘02’s.

 

The background color of these tuning stickers went back and forth between black and silver. Maybe 1968-69 and 1973-76 were black, while 1970-72 were silver. In some years, such as 1972, the stock on which they were printed was scored with circles so that the sticker could not be moved from car to car without self-destructing (third photo below).

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

[HBChris]

@Britshlron I don’t know when the FMVSS sticker first appeared but it was only on the driver side door.  All of the under hood stickers, first black, then silver, then black are DOT/EPA stickers.  See the post from @Conserv as he has is certainly more knowledgeable than I am.  When a grey market import was federalized it didn’t get an FMVSS or DOT/EPA sticker, those could only be applied by BMW at the factory, it received the one you posted for Michael Hand in the door jamb.

Edited July 15 by HBChris

[BritshIron]

 

Steve, In a manner similar to the DOT/EPA labeling you discuss, the FMVSS labels evolved over time with changes in the law, and eventually required more information, such as the VIN number, Gross Vehicle Weight information, etc. In trying to determine the source of the FMVSS label on my newest edition, Baur VIN 1558629, I chimed into this thread. I’m now convinced the cabriolet FMVSS label was added by some company that specialized in bringing these (otherwise) European safety spec cars up to US standards during the year of manufacture.

 

The Barry W. Taylor Enterprises, Inc. FMVSS label below, affixed to an 02 Turbo, is another good example of a FMVSS label made and affixed well after the car was new.

 

I am grateful to the guys who improved my knowledge about these “after-market” FMVSS labels. I also take your point that the FMVSS labels are different from the DOT/EPA tuning stickers, which provide assurances the cars were ostensibly meeting air emissions criteria. Carl Nelson seems to believe his DOT/EPA silver sticker provides proof positive that his 1970 cabriolet was legally imported into the US. He may be absolutely correct on that point, but as you have made clear, that silver sticker is not a FMVSS label.

 

Anyway, I’m trying to find the import company or conversion shop that used the FMVSS sticker that is the style of 1558629. My hope is finding the company may give me a better idea as to when the car was imported. I’m guessing there’s a government bureau somewhere that may have the import records. Any suggestions to this end would be appreciated. Aloha, Robert