our new-to-us 1600-2

[Conserv]

14 minutes ago, Lorin said:

It was posted earlier that the car was chamonix. 

Thanks, Lorin,

 

But I couldn’t tell if that was per Archives’s records, or simply recent history? My ‘73 is unambiguously Malaga today, and since the 1980’s (first photo below), but it was Inka when it left the factory (per Archives and second photo below)… ?

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[autokunst]

5 hours ago, Conserv said:

Does it have the now-quite-rare Chocolate (a.k.a., “UPS”) Brown interior, or is that just the lighting in the garage photo? This interior color was phased out around March-ish 1968, replaced by the lighter Tobacco Brown interior. What does BMW Group Archives (info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com) state was the car’s original exterior color?

 

Lastly, 1968 model year ‘02’s did not have head restraints, whereas a 1969 model year ‘02 built late in the 1968 calendar year would have head restraints. I’m guessing 1968 is on the title, but was it built after September 1, 1968, making it a 1969 model year example?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Hi Steve,

The interior is black.  What you are seeing is probably another side effect of the beautifully warm lighting in the garage (Raven's Nest).  

 

According to BWW archive group, the car was manufactured on February 19, 1968, Chamonix paint code 085.  The VIN supports this early '68 timing.  I do not know about the seat or headrest history or timing.  Perhaps a previous owner over the past 54 years replaced the front seats?  I can tell you that the driver's side seat is not folding forward to access the back seat as is it should.  That is low on my list (but still on my list) of things to address.  

 

I suspect this is a 1968 model year.

 

Stephen

[autokunst]

Big day today.  I left the office early to visit a friend who was doing some work on their 1969 2002.  Our 1600 is the one through the doors beyond.  

 

Put a few miles on the car, and did the ubiquitous drive past the Calatrava museum wing.

 

And ultimately went out for dinner and ice cream with Amy.  The 1600 was dwarfed by contemporary vehicles.  And yes, that is a parking ticket on the windshield.  I have the parking app on my phone but it only works if you press the final button "start parking". 

 

 

[autokunst]

Here's another shot of the cousins.

[Conserv]

13 hours ago, autokunst said:

Hi Steve,

The interior is black.  What you are seeing is probably another side effect of the beautifully warm lighting in the garage (Raven's Nest).  

 

According to BWW archive group, the car was manufactured on February 19, 1968, Chamonix paint code 085.  The VIN supports this early '68 timing.  I do not know about the seat or headrest history or timing.  Perhaps a previous owner over the past 54 years replaced the front seats?  I can tell you that the driver's side seat is not folding forward to access the back seat as is it should.  That is low on my list (but still on my list) of things to address.  

 

I suspect this is a 1968 model year.

 

Stephen

Thanks, Stephen,

 

Yes, of course, a February 19, 1968 1600-2 can only be a 1968 model year example. The headrests, or seat backs, or front seats likely came from a later car. These seats, if they have not been massively overhauled previously, likely retain their date-stamped manufacturer’s cards in the rear of the backrests — remove 6 Philips-head screws and slide the rear panel slightly upward to remove it. Below, in three photos, is the open backrest, manufacturer’s card, and Gummihaar card from a right-front reclining seat (“rechts Liegesitz”) manufactured June 20, 1972 (“20. 6. 72”). The Gummihaar was completed May ?, 1972 (“? Mai 1972”). The seat manufacturer was P.A.R.A., or P.A. Rentrop, A.G. The Gummihaar manufacturer was Naue.

 

And a Black all-vinyl interior was the norm with Chamonix until some time during the 1968 calendar year, when Marine Blue replaced Black as the constant companion of Chamonix.

 

If a seat back does not release when you lift the release lever, one of the release operating wires — one of which is seen in the photos below — may be torn, stretched, or off its pulley.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[autokunst]

12 minutes ago, Conserv said:

Thanks, Stephen,

 

Yes, of course, a February 19, 1968 1600-2 can only be a 1968 model year example. The headrests, or seat backs, or front seats likely came from a later car. These seats, if they have not been massively overhauled previously, likely retain their date-stamped manufacturer’s cards in the rear of the backrests — remove 6 Philips-head screws and slide the rear panel slightly upward to remove it. Below, in two photos, is the open backrest and manufacturer’s card from a right-front reclining seat (“rechts Liegesitz”) manufactured June 20, 1972 (“20. 6. 72”).

 

And a Black all-vinyl interior was the norm with Chamonix until some time during the 1968 calendar year, when Marine Blue replaced Black as the constant companion of Chamonix.

 

If a seat back does not release when you lift the release lever, one of the release operating wires — one of which is seen in the photos below — may be torn, stretched, or off its pulley.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Thank you for the insight.  I will investigate the date over the weekend and report what I find.  I hope to also see and be able to repair the seat back release mechanism.

[autokunst]

Opened up the seat backs this morning, and found the tags just as @Conserv said - thanks Steve!  To my eye it appears these seats are from July 1969 - 17 months after the build date of the car.  I am glad they were replaced as I like the head rests.

 

Driver's seat tag:

 

Passenger seat tags:

 

Also, just as predicted, one of the two cables for the seat back release in the drivers seat had broken.  I will be able to replace/repair the broken cable and should have the seat working properly again.

 

I should probably post a proper WTB post, but if anyone reading this has a pair of the latch trims, I'd be interested.  WN has them, but a nice set of used trims would match the car better.

Chrome Cover you need 2 for 1 car

WWW.WALLOTHNESCH.COM

---

Chrome Cover you need 2 for 1 car

Our seats are missing them.  Thanks in advance!

[02Les]

And, this is why the clever ones do not call '02s E10s?

 

[bavariaboy]

I feel like I am watching "Raiders of the Lost 2002" with Steve(Conserv) as Harrison Bmw and his team of Archeologists doing a dig on a rare and original 1600-2. Or as team member 02Les would correctly call it, a BMW 114.  But Autokunst is the lucky one, as he is the only team member on-site with hands and eyes on the prize.

 

Steve O'Neill(Bavariaboy)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lorin]

20 hours ago, Conserv said:

Thanks, Lorin,

 

But I couldn’t tell if that was per Archives’s records, or simply recent history? My ‘73 is unambiguously Malaga today, and since the 1980’s (first photo below), but it was Inka when it left the factory (per Archives and second photo below)… ?

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Excellent sleuthing Steve. 
 

I will say the incorrect black seats do look great against the white exterior. 

[autokunst]

43 minutes ago, bavariaboy said:

I feel like I am watching "Raiders of the Lost 2002" with Steve(Conserv) as Harrison Bmw and his team of Archeologists doing a dig on a rare and original 1600-2. Or as team member 02Les would correctly call it, a BMW 114.  But Autokunst is the lucky one, as he is the only team member on-site with hands and eyes on the prize.

 

Steve O'Neill(Bavariaboy)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm "boots on the ground", or "in the field". ?

But as we've just learned, these seats are not original. I would, however, assume that the original seats were black - just without the headrests. The seat bottoms may even be original and only the seat backs replaced (speculation).

[Conserv]

7 hours ago, Lorin said:

Excellent sleuthing Steve. 
 

I will say the incorrect black seats do look great against the white exterior. 

But I now believe, Lorin — but did not believe or consider ten years ago — that a black interior is the “factory default” interior for Chamonix 1600-2’s and 2002’s manufactured before some point, possibly late, in the 1968 calendar year. I have not yet seen convincing evidence that Marine Blue interiors existed in 1966, 1967, or even the beginning of 1968.

 

My collection of paint and upholstery brochures includes a brochure copyrighted November 1968, but having a December 1968 publication date. It is the earliest global paint and upholstery brochure I have that shows a concordance of exterior color with default interior color. The form of this November 1968 concordance is not a chart but, rather, a columnar presentation of the available colors. At the head of each column is a single exterior color; the rows are labeled with BMW model names. Thus, it is a matrix in which you match exterior color to your model. This is the first document I have showing Marine Blue as an interior color. But I don’t have any similar factory document showing paint AND upholstery before November 1968 — so I only have negative evidence!

 

Just to clarify, since the color reproduction of the brochure is poor and, I suspect, my iPhone’s color correction only makes the reproduction worse, K 43/39 is the Marine Blue all vinyl interior (“K” = Kunstleder) consisting of #43 molded vinyl and #39 smooth vinyl.

 

And allow me to add the following points:

 

1. I have never seen a 1966 or 1967 model year 1600-2 with a Marine Blue interior. Is that proof? Hardly, but I’ve been around these cars for 49 years, so I’ve seen a lot of them.

 

2. I’ve seen plenty of Chamonix 1967 models and those appearing to have original interiors had Black all-vinyl interiors.

 

3. I’ve seen Chamonix early 1968 models and those appearing to have original interiors, such as @West Palm 2002’s very original 1968 1600-2 (VIN 1560364, September 18, 1967) have Black all-vinyl interiors.

 

So… does anyone here have a factory Chamonix 1968 1600-2 or 2002 with what appears to be a factory Marine Blue interior? Note: this would be a Marine Blue interior with the early wide front seat backs and no evidence of head restraints! And, of course, those seats, if not comprehensively restored, would likely have date-stamped manufacturers’ slips inside. If you have a factory Chamonix 1600-2 or 2002 manufactured before the November 1968 brochure I published below, let’s have photos, a VIN, and a manufacturing date. This will be fun!

 

I’d really like to know when Marine Blue first appeared. The early Chocolate Brown interior was being phased out in approximately March 1968, and replaced by the lighter Tobacco Brown interior. I wonder if Marine Blue could have appeared at that time, or, possibly, with the appearance of head restraints in late 1968.

 

You guys don’t think I’m too nerdy for worrying about the introduction of Marine Blue, do ya? ? Don’t answer that… ?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Conserv]

6 hours ago, autokunst said:

… The seat bottoms may even be original and only the seat backs replaced (speculation)…

 

Well, I don’t speak German, but I believe rechts Liegesitz translates into “right reclining seat”. So (a.) this backrest started life on a reclining seat — in contrast to the 1600-2’s standard 3-way adjustable seat, and (b.) although I can’t see all of your front seat’s hinges, they look like full recliners and not 3-way adjustable hinges. Below is a photo of a full recliner, as would have been found on a July 1969 2002.

 

This, combined with the rarity of full reclining seats on a March 1968 1600-2 — I don’t know if that ever happened — while any July 1969 2002 imported by Hoffman Motors certainly had recliners, would lead me to conclude that the entire July 1969 seats were moved from the 1969 model to the 1968 model.

 

That’s where I’m at!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

[ray_]

Nice car.

 

[autokunst]

On 8/20/2022 at 7:15 PM, ray_ said:

Nice car.

 

Thanks Ray.  You'd know.

Edited November 15, 2022 by autokunst