Look at this Squaretail now on sale

[NYNick]

I just went through all the pictures looking for a problem...any problem, and I couldn't find any. Sure a few black parts underneath have been touched up or painted, but my God, what a car. My biggest question is where has this car been for all these years? This is certainly not a normal garage stored beauty. It had to be in a museum or private collection receiving periodic cleaning and servicing to look like this, yet no mention of that.

 

And Euro cars didn't come with a Tach?

 

I think on BaT, this car would break $100K.

[fastricky]

Yeah the question is would you keep the clock as is or replace with a tach??? 

[Conserv]

5 hours ago, fastricky said:

Yeah the question is would you keep the clock as is or replace with a tach??? 

That clock would be in a box on a basement shelf by noon. Who’s going to snitch?
 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[Conserv]

22 hours ago, NYNick said:

I just went through all the pictures looking for a problem...any problem, and I couldn't find any. Sure a few black parts underneath have been touched up or painted, but my God, what a car. My biggest question is where has this car been for all these years? This is certainly not a normal garage stored beauty. It had to be in a museum or private collection receiving periodic cleaning and servicing to look like this, yet no mention of that.

 

And Euro cars didn't come with a Tach?

 

I think on BaT, this car would break $100K.

Steam cleaning and detailing (of a non-rusty car)…

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[Gordon]

10 hours ago, NYNick said:

And Euro cars didn't come with a Tach?

Tach was on option for Euro spec 02's. The only Euro spec 02's that came standard with a tach were ti, tii and turbo. 2002 was the only model with a 200 KPH speedo. 1502, 1602 and 1802 had a 180 KPH, ti/tii had a 220 KPH speedo, and turbo had a 240 KPH speedo.  My Euro 2002 cluster that I bought at an auto flea market in 2008 near Stuttgart and after conversion.  The Euro cluster with crosshair gauges now sits in my 74 tii.  The clock and 200 KPH speedo are still in my parts stash. Notice that the Euro cluster doesn't have brake stamped on the red parking brake light or the reset button for brake light test.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Gordon

[Tommy]

1 hour ago, Gordon said:

Tach was on option for Euro spec 02's.

I actually thought it was std for 2002. Must have been pretty common, (but rare in 1502 as all options). So, if I was buying this car I wouldn't rip it out unless original option list was found proofing unexistence.

 

Going back to -77 vs. -22 debate, I find that the -77 backstory written by Steve sounds much more feasible. Also, while not an expert in graphology, I find that the 7 in the first service is written in the same manner as 77 in the latter just a little faster way. 2 in the first one is totally different.

[2002Scoob]

As far as I understand, manual cars came with tachos and only automatics came with the clock. My guess is that it's not the original gauge pack that came with the car, and if it is perhaps the car might not have started life as a manual. 

 

-J

 

Who bought a manual-equipped 02 back in the day from Oldenzaal Classics that was a mishmash of parts, and started life as an auto and had a clock in the cluster. I've voiced my opinions about them b4. And while it seems they've started executing better work, out of principle I would not buy another vehicle from them. 

 

As the saying goes, if ya don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. So therefore I've got nothing else to say on that front

 

[Gordon]

3 hours ago, 2002Scoob said:

As far as I understand, manual cars came with tachos and only automatics came with the clock. My guess is that it's not the original gauge pack that came with the car, and if it is perhaps the car might not have started life as a manual.

Tachs for manual and clocks for automatics applies only for US spec 02's.  that's the way Hoffman ordered them. Clocks were standard on all Euro spec 02's except ti/tii/turbo. If you wanted a tach with your Euro spec 02, that was an option you had to order.  

[Conserv]

As to tachometers, everyone here is correct — sort of! I’m working from actual window stickers. And these are all for U.S.-spec cars. I don’t have similar documentation for Euro-spec cars, so I’m not opining on what you might find in markets outside the U.S.
 

1. All U.S. tii’s had tachometers as standard equipment. Not one tii window sticker shows an extra-cost line item for a tachometer. Most but not every U.S. tii window sticker, rather, shows “TACHOMETER” as standard equipment. The first photo shows a typical U.S. tii window sticker.

 

2. For U.S. 2002’s, a tachometer was an extra-cost option up through 1975. I don’t actually have any 2002 window stickers for 1968 through 1970 — so this is a weakness in my argument — but 1971 through 1975 model U.S.-spec 2002’s show an extra-cost line item for tachometers. My earliest 2002 window sticker, for a March 1971 car, shows the tachometer as a $42 option (second photo). By 1972, the cost has risen to $43 (third photo).  By 1974, it’s a $69 option (fourth photo). And by 1975, it’s a $72 option (fifth photo). Remember, U.S. buyers did not order 2002’s for themselves: Hoffman Motors Corp. and, beginning in 1975, BMW, NA ordered 2002’s for you. How sweet! 🙄 You chose from what they had ordered — except for European Deliveries.

 

3. Finally, with the 1976 model — viewed inarguably as the apotheosis of the ‘02 series — BMW understood that a manual transmission 2002 must have a tachometer. And it must be standard equipment. And, thus, the perfect 2002 was created (sixth photo — lookie there: that appears to be my ‘76). 🙌

 

So there’s a rough sketch of tachometers on U.S.-delivered 2002’s and 2002tii’s.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

[Conserv]

A really interested party could pull the instrument cluster from the Oldenzaal car and inspect the many inked and stamped dates on the rear of the cluster. They should all fall within a couple months leading up to the manufacturing date, which RealOEM.com pegs as March 1974.

 

But if the instrument panel is proven to have been switched, e.g., dated after the car’s manufacturing date, is the car any less pristine? It just means that the mileage is “Unknown”, which I believe to be the case with many, many classic cars.

 

(Didja ever notice that nearly half of the ‘02’s for sale seem to have non-working speedometers? And there are great stories often attached, “It was broken when I bought the car in 2008, but here’s my (vague and meandering) calculation of the miles I’ve put on the car. Yes, the speedometer is still broken.” 🙄 I don’t believe this is primarily an attempt to increase value. I believe it reflects the prevalence of broken speedometers, odometers, and speedometer cables on ‘02’s, plus a general laziness to fix such items.)

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[bavariaboy]

Steve, a fascinating documented history of the elusive Tachometer "option."

 

Question, how much was an automatic transmission ? Lilli, my 76, 2002, Chaminoix(a non-metallic color?)is optioned differently than yours because of  her automatic, and no extra charge, $244.00, for the non-metallic paint.

 

Your window sticker lists 3 speed wipers but says nothing about the intermittent feature Lilli has. I have been told that all 76s came with intermittent. True?

 

Finally, recently, there was a discussion of a low-fuel indicator light. Lilli has what appears to be the low-fuel light, the right side light of the pair of idiot lights. It has the letter "F" included. Was this light exclusive to 76 or...?

 

Thanks,

 

Steve ONeill

[autokunst]

40 minutes ago, bavariaboy said:

Steve, a fascinating documented history of the elusive Tachometer "option."

 

Question, how much was an automatic transmission ? Lilli, my 76, 2002, Chaminoix(a non-metallic color?)is optioned differently than yours because of  her automatic, and no extra charge, $244.00, for the non-metallic paint.

 

Your window sticker lists 3 speed wipers but says nothing about the intermittent feature Lilli has. I have been told that all 76s came with intermittent. True?

 

Finally, recently, there was a discussion of a low-fuel indicator light. Lilli has what appears to be the low-fuel light, the right side light of the pair of idiot lights. It has the letter "F" included. Was this light exclusive to 76 or...?

 

Thanks,

 

Steve ONeill

I think our '68 1600 has the low fuel light, too.  Wasn't this on all of the cars in the left gauge cluster? Without going out to check, I feel the low fuel light might be white?

Edited October 6, 2022 by autokunst

[jimk]

1 hour ago, Conserv said:

My earliest 2002 window sticker, for a March 1971 car, shows the tachometer as a $42 option (second photo)

My invoice from Europe By Car August 1971 build/delivery Sept 23, 1971, (2578xxx)shows the tachometer cost at $41.  Sorry no window sticker, a factory delivered car.

Edited October 6, 2022 by jimk

[Conserv]

13 hours ago, bavariaboy said:

Steve, a fascinating documented history of the elusive Tachometer "option."

 

Question, how much was an automatic transmission ? Lilli, my 76, 2002, Chaminoix(a non-metallic color?)is optioned differently than yours because of  her automatic, and no extra charge, $244.00, for the non-metallic paint.

 

Your window sticker lists 3 speed wipers but says nothing about the intermittent feature Lilli has. I have been told that all 76s came with intermittent. True?

 

Finally, recently, there was a discussion of a low-fuel indicator light. Lilli has what appears to be the low-fuel light, the right side light of the pair of idiot lights. It has the letter "F" included. Was this light exclusive to 76 or...?

 

Thanks,

 

Steve ONeill

Hey, Steve,

 

The auto trans appears to be a $285 option on the attached window sticker for a ‘76 2002A.

 

I believe all ‘76 models have the intermittent wipers. I believe that “THREE SPEED WIPER/WASHERS” means: 1. intermittent, 2. really slow, and 3. a bit less slow… 🙄

 

They were a tad peppier in 1976! And after they run for a bit today, they do step up their pace. 👍

 

I’m not with my ‘02’s right now. But isn’t the “F” light a blue high-beam indicator. I’ve not had low fuel warning lights on my ‘67 1600-2, ‘70 2002, ‘73 2002tii, or ‘76 2002. If someone here has a U.S.-spec ‘02 with a low-fuel warning light, I’m eager to see it in action! Photos please!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve C.

 

 

 

[John76]

30 minutes ago, Conserv said:

But isn’t the “F” light a blue high-beam indicator.

I believe the low fuel light is the same as the brake light. You could have it hooked up to indicate the parking brake "on", brake fluid level "low", brake system pressure imbalance, and low fuel level. Not sure if the low fuel signal came from the fuel sender on the tank (a third wire would confirm) or the gauge cluster. Perhaps that unidentifiable male spade connector at the bottom

rear of the cluster has something to do with it? It is not a common ground, but I've never thought to test it with the ignition on when the tank is empty.  Another "nit" to "pick" ☺️