UPDATED: BRISTOL 68 1600-2 Brake parts- Where to find them?

[1965GTFB]

UPDATED info/question/thought 3/16/23:

One more thought that came to me this morning.

My chassis # is 1561924.

I have had comments about that being a very early car, with the first '68 being 1560001.

That made me wonder if:

Maybe only a 1600-2 savant would know this but, is there any chance that BMW put these very small calipers on the very early cars then for better braking power made a running change to the 48mm piston calipers and the smaller versions which are on my front later became rear calipers on later series cars?

 

Being a semi-savant on '64.5-'68 Mustangs, having 1 of my own and built the 3 with my kids and owned several others over the decades, I know Ford did things like that.  Generator to alt. automatic shifter handle size, emblem size, seat belts (actually owned a day 1, 1 owner 1968 Mustang that did not have shoulder harness belts which became mandated in '68 and were on other '68s I had owned), etc.

Just a thought.

 

Also background info on prior service:

It sold new in Santa Barbara and the original owner traded it in 1 year later to purchase a 2002.  I recently bought it from the 2nd owner, retired Physics teacher form San Luis Obispo HS and neighbor of our oldest son (that's my son in the pic I'm including of where it sat for 28 years).  It was the family car until his son took it to college at UC Davis and had it serviced by a shop it Sacramento.  When the son graduated and returned home with the car the father parked it as he felt it had some issues and he was skeptical of some of the work performed by the shop in Sac.  That was 28 years ago that he parked it where it sat until I bought.  The father also owned a 3.0CS.

 

From the information Jim passed on to me from you, and replies received from Walloth & Nesch when inquiring about caliper pistons, it is starting to smell more and more like the shop in Sac may actually have put rear calipers on the car.

 

The spec on the pistons and I have calipers are:

- OD 1.650"/41.91mm

- Total Height including ridge/lip at top 1.146"/29.1084mm

- OD of ridge/lip at top 1.422"/36.1188mm

 

My understanding from W & N and from what Jim said you told him is that the pistons should be 48mm OD.

Also received some info through a caliper rebuilder and Jim that if they are rears they could be from an E12/5 series/Bavaria

The holes for the caliper mounting bolts are approx. 3"/76.2mm apart.

 

END OF UPDATE

 

Bottom Line question is where to find brake parts for a 1968 1600-2 with 2 piston calipers and remote booster setup.

Would like to keep the original type brake setup, or will I need to go another route if parts are not available.  Will not be doing any type of driving that would mandate going with the bigger brakes.

 

The rest of the story and details are:

Finally getting the time to do some work on the '68 1600-2 project I picked up almost 2 years ago.   Trying to get the brakes sorted out  on the 1600-2 while I have a break for the '56 F100 project I'm building for my BIL is at the painter.

I got the 1600-2 running, runs well, no smoke, starts every time, cleaned the tank (that had been lined by the OO or PO), been keeping only non-ethanol fuel in it.  Replaced the driveshaft center bearing and all the rubber mounting parts for the shifter and trans.  Have driven it around the neighborhood with just the hand brake because that is all it had.

 

So, now it is time to fix the brakes for real.

- Blead the brakes and got the rears to function but will still be replacing the wheel cylinders.

- 2 piston Calipers in the front.

- Calipers are frozen.  Cracked the hoses loose and the fluid does flow to that point.

- I have rebuild various calipers before ('74 2002, several '60s Mustangs) and don't mind doing that if these are rebuildable but would like to find some already rebuilt or usable as is to save time before that '56 F100 comes back to my garage for me to finish building it.

- Car does have the remote booster.

- Rotors are rough but measure out to a size that I think can be turned.  Around .053" above the .330" I have found online as the minimum spec.

- Several places, including AutoZone, show things like calipers, rotors, wheel cylinders being available but are really not once they look it up.

 

Let me know of any sources out there that really do have the 1600-2 parts.

List would include:

- Calipers 2 piston

- Rear Wheel cylinders

- Rotors

- Pads (which area available at AZ, etc.)

- Master Cylinder

- Cylinder that is mounted on the booster

- Hoses, front & rear

 

Thanks

 

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by 1965GTFB

[HBChris]

This Thread is from 2009 so prices have changed but the e21 solid rotor calipers are the easy upgrade for the front.

 

 

[jscaptura1]

Blunt tech is always a good place to find parts for an 02.

[Einspritz]

PMB to rebuild the calipers.

[Conserv]

And White Post Restorations to rebuild calipers, masters, and boosters where new replacements are not readily available.

 

Besides Blunttech, which is excellent, you should be considering Walloth & Nesch, Maximillian BMW, Roger’s tii.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[Mike Self]

According to my 1979 BMW(nospace)CCA Tech Tips book, the calipers from an Opel GT of similar vintage (and presumably the Opel sedans/wagons too) use a 2 piston caliper that bolts on and connects properly with your BMW brake hoses.  Caliper offset is correct, and the pads are identical...at least that's what the book says...

 

mike

[HBChris]

The only real issue is that the early calipers have tiny pads.

[Conserv]

7 hours ago, HBChris said:

The only real issue is that the early calipers have tiny pads.

My butt deceleration gauge, however, said that my ‘67 1600-2 had the best stock brakes of any ‘02 I’ve owned, and my ‘76 had the worst stock brakes of any ‘02 I’ve owned.

 

The ‘67’s brakes shocked me with how fast they hauled that car down.

 

Is it simply the low weight of a ‘67?
 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[Son of Marty]

It is the low weight and the singleish application on the track or steep mountian roads they get hot fast.

[north1602]

Walloth & Nesch just listed an entire brake kit for the 1600.  Everything you need except rotors

 

link here:   

BMW 1502 - 2002 turbo - Permanently reduced 03/2023 | Wallothesch

WWW.WALLOTHNESCH.COM

 

 

[FunElan]

My 1600 had the stock small front calipers with baby pads, and stock 02 rear drums, for about 10 years. I recently swapped the fronts to the stock 2002 dual circuit 4 piston calipers and I feel a noticeable difference. Crazy to me at the moment to think that people need even more braking power than this!

 

OP - If you want to stick with the stock set up, Jim at Mesa Performance in CA has rebuild kits (that's where I got mine). I rebuilt my 2 piston calipers and the worked fine, but make sure you get the angle of the piston correct in the bore if it has the funky slotted face. Otherwise, you can upgrade to the 78+ e21 calipers, and just extend the hardline. Last I checked, those were still available on eBay and other places. I just sold all of my single circuit calipers unfortunately. 

[TobyB]

Quote

 Crazy to me at the moment to think that people need even more braking power than this!

 

It's not force, it's duration.

 

If you're only stopping once, a la a landing airplane, you're just fine.

 

If you're slowing from 100 to 45 3 or 4 times a minute, you've got about a minute

before your front pads... catch on fiyah!

 

Brian Capp (remember him?) brought a '68 to the track once, and was changing

pads every session...

 

t

 

[1965GTFB]

On 3/11/2023 at 11:58 AM, FunElan said:

but make sure you get the angle of the piston correct in the bore if it has the funky slotted face. 

Explain to me the getting the slotted face pistons in correct.  Assuming it has to do with the way it makes contact with the pad? 

Did not see any particular reference to piston indexing in my Haynes Manual but realize it may not be specific enough to the 2 piston calipers since it covers many years.

Here are my parts after some ultrasonic cleaning.  Probably going to bead blast them next.

One piston may not be usable.  Need to find a source for a piston.

 

 

[stephers]

Alfa also uses ATE single piston calipers as well         As long as the bolt spacing matches, they could work

 

Thanks, Rick

[FunElan]

16 hours ago, 1965GTFB said:

Explain to me the getting the slotted face pistons in correct.  Assuming it has to do with the way it makes contact with the pad? 

Did not see any particular reference to piston indexing in my Haynes Manual but realize it may not be specific enough to the 2 piston calipers since it covers many years.

Here are my parts after some ultrasonic cleaning.  Probably going to bead blast them next.

One piston may not be usable.  Need to find a source for a piston.

 

 

 

 

 

Flip this thing the correct orientation and it'll make sense. This image is from a Porsche with the caliper on the front