Head Gasket Problems

[Son of Marty]

Just to be sure, you did use the hardend thick washers under the head bolts?

[Dudeland]

Ireland has ARP head bolts in stock.  Just sayn. 

 

 

[Reza Taheri]

22 minutes ago, thehackmechanic said:

Very odd problem. My experience is that cracked heads tend to present as white sweet-smelling exhaust smoke, whereas blown headgaskets tend to present as milkshakes in the coolant (yeah obviously it depends where they're blown).

 

I'd be very surprised if your installing the head bolts dry had anything to do with it.

 

To be clear, you say that there's clear water (or antifreeze) in the radiator, but you have "constant milkshakes" in the oil?

Jimk's idea of the water pump gasket being dislodged is a good one, but that wouldn't explain the exhaust gas in the coolant.

Are you SURE "the dipstick ALWAYS showed no oil?" I've certainly made the mistake of not being able to see clean oil on the stick. And how does that jive with having "constant milkshakes?" I must be misunderstanding something.

 

If it was my car, I'd do both a compression and a leakdown test as stephers recommends before I did anything else. But even if both of those don't show any compression loss, it's certainly possible that corrosion on the head between the coolant and oil passages is causing the mixing. 

Again, if it was my car, I'd want to assure myself that the head is perfect (and that Jimk's water pump gasket theory isn't the cause) before pulling the engine to deal with the block.

 

--Rob

 

 

 

Compression problems? Here’s a tool you shouldn’t be without - Hagerty Media

WWW.HAGERTY.COM

---

Working on a 1965 Corvair Monza, Rob Siegel shows how to use a leakdown tester.

 

My confusion as well!! I remove the drain plug and milkshake comes out. But the dipstick is barely dirty water. Now that I have smurf juice in there, there seems to be more color on the dipstick and it's thicker 

[Reza Taheri]

22 minutes ago, Son of Marty said:

Just to be sure, you did use the hardend thick washers under the head bolts?

I used these, ARP bolts have been out of stock forever 

[TobyB]

Uhh, if the dipstick is not showing oil, don't run the engine.

 

It's pretty damned unusual for a water to oil contamination to be 

caused by the block, especially in this quantity.  I blew the crap

out of an engine a couple of years ago, and while the block is 

cracked into pieces, there was no water in the oil...

 

And the stock head bolts are re- usable for about ever- they're

not torque to yield, and will certainly hold up to 160 bhp with no trouble.

They're not your problem.  UNLESS the new ones are too long, or

you didn't use the washers under the heads...

 

I'm guessing there's something pretty fundamentally messed up, here-

wrong head gasket, broken head, etc etc.  Without parts in front of us,

or even pictures, there's not a lot to go on....

 

t

not so helpful today

[Son of Marty]

To me it seems to be a head clamping problem, how much has the head been shaved? Have you compared the old heat bolts to the new ones, are the locating dowel set square and all the way seated?

[Reza Taheri]

5 hours ago, TobyB said:

Uhh, if the dipstick is not showing oil, don't run the engine.

 

It's pretty damned unusual for a water to oil contamination to be 

caused by the block, especially in this quantity.  I blew the crap

out of an engine a couple of years ago, and while the block is 

cracked into pieces, there was no water in the oil...

 

And the stock head bolts are re- usable for about ever- they're

not torque to yield, and will certainly hold up to 160 bhp with no trouble.

They're not your problem.  UNLESS the new ones are too long, or

you didn't use the washers under the heads...

 

I'm guessing there's something pretty fundamentally messed up, here-

wrong head gasket, broken head, etc etc.  Without parts in front of us,

or even pictures, there's not a lot to go on....

 

t

not so helpful today

First off, I REALLY appreciate everyone's thoughtful responses. This has been driving me crazy. 

Moving forward, should I take pics of the overall engine bay and then the valve cover off? What information can I provide to offer more clues? 

[Reza Taheri]

5 hours ago, Son of Marty said:

To me it seems to be a head clamping problem, how much has the head been shaved? Have you compared the old heat bolts to the new ones, are the locating dowel set square and all the way seated?

I dont think the shop offered a measurement, but it didn't seem like much. They said the head was in good condition and were really surprised by the condition of the stock cam. My issue with the head is the valve cover studs as a couple are not seating all the way in, but I'm learning these original valve covers are hopeless regardless so I need to get over it. Other than that, the head seems fine. I never messed with the dowels as they seemed pretty set in. I don't think the head has been off in 50 years. Cleaning the block was really difficult and I spent hours on it with subpar results. I'm surprised there's still remnants of machine lube in the head. After all these oil changes I would think the lube would have been flushed out. 

[Hans]

Is every head bolt hole clean and dry at bottom? Machine lube?

Edited March 21, 2023 by Hans
More

[Reza Taheri]

Just now, Hans said:

Is every head bolt hole clean and dry at bottom?

No, I put a little oil on a shop rag and rubbed each bolt on the shop rag to "lightly oil" it 

[tzei]

Ok so Hans asked did you clean all head bolt threads from the block before you put new gasket and dropped head back on?

After the head bolts are removed & head pulled off those ten threated holes in the block are full of oil, gunk, goo etc. These needs to be emptied and cleaned good, really good like totally spotless. Then on assembly your thinly oiled head bolts has a chance.

btw how did you clean block deck?

[tech71]

Interesting topic and posts but not sure any of it is productive, clearly you have a major problem. Theorizing is fun but empirical evidence is required here.

Time to bite the bullet, pull the engine, disassemble, inspect and find out exactly what the biscuit is going on in there.

Sorry

Edited March 21, 2023 by tech71

[Hans]

At the risk of more theorizing, the current problem could be related to the head R&R, and have nothing to do with the block. That said, OP is half way to full rebuild....

I'd make one more attempt on head install. Clean out the bolt holes. Harbor Frt used to sell oversized Qtips. Make sure block deck is clean. I think haynes used to recc sealant around oil hole in gasket near #1 intake area (with cover corners). This assumes head was done properly.

What did you mean by machine lube?

Edited March 21, 2023 by Hans
More

[Reza Taheri]

7 hours ago, tzei said:

Ok so Hans asked did you clean all head bolt threads from the block before you put new gasket and dropped head back on?

After the head bolts are removed & head pulled off those ten threated holes in the block are full of oil, gunk, goo etc. These needs to be emptied and cleaned good, really good like totally spotless. Then on assembly your thinly oiled head bolts has a chance.

btw how did you clean block deck?

Sorry, yes I cleaned the holes with brake cleaner, a spiral brush, and blew it out with compressed air before putting in each bolt. Bolts went in smoothly by hand. 

 

Block deck was cleaned with gasket cleaner, scotch brite pads and plastic razors. 

[Reza Taheri]

8 hours ago, Hans said:

Is every head bolt hole clean and dry at bottom? Machine lube?

I meant assembly lube. The machine shop used this thick pink lube on the cam shaft and rockers.