Kugelfischer pump

[Driv3r]

Could one of you gents tell me if there’s a difference in timing or performance between tii injector pumps from 71-75? I’m trying to source a spare pump to send to specialist to be rebuilt to match the performance upgrades that I’ll be planning and want to know which pump to use as a base. My motor is 73 tii (roundie). Here is the pump I’m looking to buy:

 

[Conserv]

At least with respect to U.S.-spec tii’s, there was a difference between pumps for 1972-73 models, on one hand, and 1974 models on the other hand. That break occurs in approximately September 1973.

 

The pump you’re looking at was manufactured January 1971 (“1  U”). There were both Euro-spec 1971 tii’s and, even earlier, a handful of 2000 tii NK’s. So it’s quite an early pump, and likely fits into the earlier group of pumps appropriate for a 1973 tii. Does the casting date of the pump housing support a January 1971 manufacturing date, i.e., it’s no later than January 1971? Below is a pump housing cast October 1972 (10 nubs surrounding “72”).

 

I’m going to assume that you’re familiar with the caveats associated with modding tii engines in the modern world, e.g., with hotter cams, years after Kugelfischer modding parts and expertise have faded from general availability.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[Driv3r]

14 minutes ago, Conserv said:

I’m going to assume that you’re familiar with the caveats associated with modding tii engines in the modern world, e.g., with hotter cams, years after Kugelfischer modding parts and expertise have faded from general availability.

Thanks Steve,

 

I was looking into sending it to kugelfischer.nl but I haven’t seen any reviews about them yet. They seem to know what they’re doing.

so since my tii is euro spec and pump is going to be completely rebuilt for performance, any model pump is ok as base donor or would you recommend a specific model? Cheers 

[Conserv]

9 hours ago, Driv3r said:

Thanks Steve,

 

I was looking into sending it to kugelfischer.nl but I haven’t seen any reviews about them yet. They seem to know what they’re doing.

so since my tii is euro spec and pump is going to be completely rebuilt for performance, any model pump is ok as base donor or would you recommend a specific model? Cheers 

Here in the States there are probably 5 to 10 shops that regularly rebuild tii Kugelfischer pumps. Mods available from these sources range from none to quite modest. I’d guess that European rebuilders might be more plentiful, and might have more modding capabilities — if only because Europe had both more pumps and expertise historically.

 

I wasn’t aware that Kugelfischer rebuilds its own pumps from the 1970’s. But they could possibly be a great source. Whoever you choose, you’ll need to have an upfront discussion with them regarding their capabilities in modifying Kugelfischer pumps.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

[JohnS]

• 1969-1971 BMW 2000 tii : PLO4-124.01 (A-1 & A-2) #92 004 010
• 1971 BMW 2002 tii  :  PLO4-124.01 (B-1) #92 004 011
• 1972-1973 2002 tii : PLO4-124.01 (C-1) #92 004 012
• 1974 2002 tii (USA) : PLO4-124.02 (A-1) #94 004 020

 

[stephers]

Interesting to find out which actual part inside the pump that they could modify, maybe a new shape on the cone, modify the cam shaft, increase pressures?       Would really like to know            I know that there are fellows in Europe that modify the cones for the MFI systems for the 911's and it is in the thousands                         

 

Thanks, Rick

[Driv3r]

31 minutes ago, stephers said:

Interesting to find out which actual part inside the pump that they could modify, maybe a new shape on the cone, modify the cam shaft, increase pressures?       Would really like to know            I know that there are fellows in Europe that modify the cones for the MFI systems for the 911's and it is in the thousands                         

 

Thanks, Rick

they do 911 pumps too. Also build race motors. Here is a link to their fb page

kugelfischer.nl

WWW.FACEBOOK.COM

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kugelfischer.nl. 165 次赞 · 4 人在谈论. Ruiter Motoren Techniek and Saxon Parts have joined forces in 2020 to...

 

[dlacey]

The difference in fuel delivery of the different pumps was discussed here:

2 hours ago, JohnS said:

• 1969-1971 BMW 2000 tii : PLO4-124.01 (A-1 & A-2) #92 004 010
• 1971 BMW 2002 tii  :  PLO4-124.01 (B-1) #92 004 011
• 1972-1973 2002 tii : PLO4-124.01 (C-1) #92 004 012
• 1974 2002 tii (USA) : PLO4-124.02 (A-1) #94 004 020

 

 

[JohnS]

10 hours ago, JohnS said:

• 1969-1971 BMW 2000 tii : PLO4-124.01 (A-1 & A-2) #92 004 010
• 1971 BMW 2002 tii  :  PLO4-124.01 (B-1) #92 004 011
• 1972-1973 2002 tii : PLO4-124.01 (C-1) #92 004 012
• 1974 2002 tii (USA) : PLO4-124.02 (A-1) #94 004 020

 

I copied this info from dlacy's instructions for rebuilding the tii warm up regulators.  Forgot to credit him, sorry,

John

[SydneyTii]

When I did my euro Tii pump a couple of years ago, the C type pumps were at that time in short supply, I was told that there is no internal difference between the B and C type euro pumps and that the well known company has interchanged them on customers cars with no issue, the main difference is the return mechanism for the WUR in that B type pumps pull the lever closed and the C type have a spring under the lever to push it closed. I realise for US 75 pumps there is a difference, and obviously Turbo are different.

Edited April 26, 2023 by SydneyTii

[Gordon]

This shop repairs Kugelfisher pumps and ships worldwide.  They overhauled my pump 20 years ago and no issues since.  

Fuel Injection Center Specializing in Mechanical Fuel Injection

WWW.FUELINJECTIONCENTER.COM

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Mechanical Fuel Injection Repair and Service. Specializing in Bosch Mechanical Fuel Injection.

 

[Son of Marty]

IMO the way to do this would be to contact your pump rebuilder and have a frank talk about which pump he would like to see and your exact plan for hopping up your Tii It's a very narrow path to keep the whole package streetable.