Non-working donor 2002 radiator for A/C

[hchueh]

Hi all,

Looking for a old radiator suitable for 2002s with A/C (has the bottom outlet coming out of the SIDE of the radiator and then bending up at a 45 degree angle).

Does anyone have one that is not usable that you are willing to part with?

 

I have a new W&N high capacity radiator but it won't fit in my tii that has A/C, so I'm trying to find a donor radiator that I can use to take to a welding fabricator and have them replace the outlet tube or the whole bottom from the donor rad).

 

Thanks for considering!

 

Henry

[jgerock]

I have a 2 row radiator I removed from my tii about a year ago. It has the 45 degree lower tube. The only thing wrong with it are some bent fins.  I replaced it with the W-N hi flow version for ac cars.

[hchueh]

W-N has a high capacity radiator for A/C?! I only saw the one model that had a straight tube out the back and I didn’t realize it wouldn’t fit with my A/C. I do see that they have an A/C radiator but that seems like the standard radiator for A/C and tii.  Do you happen to have the W-N part number for yours?

I would just order the right version if that exists. A lot easier than welding my current W-N one!

 

thanks

[jgerock]

41 minutes ago, hchueh said:

W-N has a high capacity radiator for A/C?! I only saw the one model that had a straight tube out the back and I didn’t realize it wouldn’t fit with my A/C. I do see that they have an A/C radiator but that seems like the standard radiator for A/C and tii.  Do you happen to have the W-N part number for yours?

I would just order the right version if that exists. A lot easier than welding my current W-N one!

 

thanks

I had the same thought so I emailed them before placing my order in 2022.

17 11 1 115 755 “Radiator for air condition equipment”

 

Note- radiator does not come with thermoswitch as seen in my picture. There is a plug from W-N. They do include a new radiator cap and overflow hose.
 

Edited June 11, 2023 by jgerock

[hchueh]

Hi Jim,

Ah, so the plot thickens! This is what I love about these cars , always something new to figure out...

 

So when I tried to install the high capacity radiator (W-N A17111102621), first it turns out the bottom return outlet won't clear the A/C. But second, the radiator has a core with 2 rows, but larger tubes than the standard tii radiator, and it's 6mm thicker.

 

So did W-N say that their radiator for A/C (that you have) has the same higher cooling capacity as the "Radiator with higher cooling rate" (the one that I have)? I hope so because then I will just buy the one you did, and sell the one I have to someone without A/C!

 

I did notice the plug on the radiator you have -- is that intended for a thermoswitch or for draining? Did you put a switch in it to turn on your A/C fan (independent of the A/C)? I was considering doing something like that (because my A/C fan only turns on if I have the A/C on). On the other hand, I would love to use that plug for one of those drain valves from Stahlbus or Votex -- avoid the mess from pulling off that lower hose!

 

Henry

[jgerock]

10 hours ago, hchueh said:

Hi Jim,

Ah, so the plot thickens! This is what I love about these cars , always something new to figure out...

 

So when I tried to install the high capacity radiator (W-N A17111102621), first it turns out the bottom return outlet won't clear the A/C. But second, the radiator has a core with 2 rows, but larger tubes than the standard tii radiator, and it's 6mm thicker.

 

So did W-N say that their radiator for A/C (that you have) has the same higher cooling capacity as the "Radiator with higher cooling rate" (the one that I have)? I hope so because then I will just buy the one you did, and sell the one I have to someone without A/C!

 

I did notice the plug on the radiator you have -- is that intended for a thermoswitch or for draining? Did you put a switch in it to turn on your A/C fan (independent of the A/C)? I was considering doing something like that (because my A/C fan only turns on if I have the A/C on). On the other hand, I would love to use that plug for one of those drain valves from Stahlbus or Votex -- avoid the mess from pulling off that lower hose!

 

Henry

I’m not sure about the different radiators W-N offers, but they are really quick to an email inquiry. I think the “A” in their part number is for aftermarket.  Stock radiators have two rows in the core- your new one appears to have wider openings (than I recall from my old one).

 

Think the lower left plug is for draining. My old radiator had a thermoswitch mounted there for the AC condenser fan. It’s not an ideal location, so I installed an Ireland Engineering upper hose adaptor with thermoswitch.

Edited June 12, 2023 by jgerock

[jgerock]

Henry- and others who are upgrading their old AC systems:

installing a new parallel flow condenser will reduce the airflow to the radiator, so your car may run hotter than before (with the old condenser).   You may want to install a colder thermostat depending on your location. My tii already has a 71 degree C thermostat.  It’s also important to space the condenser away from the radiator a little bit.

[jimk]

Suggest having a radiator shop solder the bottom tank you want to the one you think will cool the best.   They solder tanks to tube sheets all the time.

[hchueh]

yes, I was planning to find a good radiator shop to do just that until I realized that the "radiator for A/C" from WN might actually also be a step above OEM, in which case it's a lot easier to just use that one! I emailed them and interestingly, they don't know offhand, and said they need to check the geometry and specs and will get back to me. 

 

I will post what I find both here and on the regular discussion.

 

Thanks,

Henry

[Conserv]

Henry,

 

The “radiator for air condition” (first screen-print below) was just introduced a few years ago. Before that, more than a few of us have had the “high cooling rate” radiator — the only version available — modified for A/C. It was no big deal for any traditional radiator shop. But, yes, having an original outboard, upward-angled lower hose outlet was important to ensure proper fit. For my ‘76, we also had to excise shroud brackets from a 1975-76 radiator to the new W&N radiator.

 

The W&N price differential is $190-ish. So the better economic answer relies on how much you must pay for an old ‘02 radiator. It’s certainly less fussy.

 

The W&N radiator is such an improvement over the factory radiator, I could never go back. I’ve had original radiators re-cored — with both three-row and modern improved two-row cores — and none have held a candle to the W&N!

 

Good luck,

 

Steve

 

[hchueh]

Hi Steve,

When you say the WN radiator is such an improvement over OEM, I'm assuming that you referring to the "high cooling rate" one that you modified? Any experience with the newer "radiator for A/C"? When swapping the radiator bottoms, did the baffling match up ok with modifications there? 

 

I now see what happened -- I ordered my WN radiator a few years back and am just getting around trying to install -- the "radiator for A/C" wasn't available at the time. In any case, I was going down the path of finding a donor radiator to swap the bottoms when Jim and others noted that the "radiator for A/C" also has a higher cooling rate core (3 vs. 2 rows) than the OEM radiator for A/C. So that would be a much simpler path if the cooling rates are similar.

 

Thanks!

[Conserv]

Yes, I had a pair of the “high cooling rate” radiators modified, one for my ‘76 and one for my ‘73. I have no experience with the “radiator for air condition equipment” although I suspect it is the same core, based on its overall dimensions. (Aside: Is it truly a 3-row, or is its advantage based on the miniaturization of fins and tubes?)

 

Here’s the radiator for the ‘76 on the operating table, acquiring brackets for the fan shroud that came on 1975-76 ‘02’s.

 

If you choose the “air condition” model, I’d guess your new “non-A/C” model is readily marketable. I seem to recall the non-A/C model was on sale, and approximately $300, when I purchased my units 7 years ago.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[hchueh]

Ok, I heard back from WN, and here's the scoop directly from them:

"17 11 1 115 755 (the radiator for models with factory A/C) is a radiator with 33 water channels in 3 rows.

 17 11 1 102 621 has 38 water channels in 2 rows, but larger channels.

 The cooling capacity will be similar."

 

I have to believe that the 2 row core with more and larger tubes probably has a somewhat higher absolute cooling rate, but the A/C radiator is probably also better than OEM with a more modern core. Of note, the 2-row radiator is about 6mm *thicker* (same width and height), which is why it can't be used with 400mm fans or many cars that have had even a minor front-end "adjustment".

 

Sooo...since I don't currently have a spare donor bottom with the 45-degree outlet to clear my A/C, and doing all the mods is quite a bit of work, I think I will just spring for the A/C radiator and sell my other (or keep it and modify it later using the bottom and brackets from the A/C radiator when it eventually dies!).

 

Thanks guys!

Henry

[Conserv]

On 6/19/2023 at 10:37 PM, hchueh said:

Ok, I heard back from WN, and here's the scoop directly from them:

"17 11 1 115 755 (the radiator for models with factory A/C) is a radiator with 33 water channels in 3 rows.

 17 11 1 102 621 has 38 water channels in 2 rows, but larger channels.

 The cooling capacity will be similar."

 

I have to believe that the 2 row core with more and larger tubes probably has a somewhat higher absolute cooling rate, but the A/C radiator is probably also better than OEM with a more modern core. Of note, the 2-row radiator is about 6mm *thicker* (same width and height), which is why it can't be used with 400mm fans or many cars that have had even a minor front-end "adjustment".

 

Sooo...since I don't currently have a spare donor bottom with the 45-degree outlet to clear my A/C, and doing all the mods is quite a bit of work, I think I will just spring for the A/C radiator and sell my other (or keep it and modify it later using the bottom and brackets from the A/C radiator when it eventually dies!).

 

Thanks guys!

Henry

And thank you, Henry for digging into the details! I wrongly assumed that the …5755 A/C radiator and the ol’…2621 non-A/C radiator shared the same 2-row core. Obviously not, since we now have the facts.

 

All I can vouch for is that the …2621 radiator, converted to A/C and 1975-76 shroud, has been absolutely transformative for an ‘02 I’ve owned for 47 years!

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Steve