not every one is satisfied with 13"

[Longstone Tyres]

Hi

 

I realise there are a stream of different views about what is the best tyre for these cars. I beleive the Alpina model fitted 185/70VR13 Pirelli Cinturato CN36, of whch Pirelli have just made a new batch.

 

Pirelli have just made a fresh batch of 165VR13 CN36, which will be with us in a month or 2, if you want the handling advantages of the CN36 without the draw backs of a bigger tyre.

 

PIRELLI CINTURATO ™ CN36 - Pirelli Classic Tyres

WWW.LONGSTONETYRES.CO.UK

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PIRELLI CINTURATO ™ CN36 Tyres - The classic PIRELLI CN36 car tyres developed in the 50s. PIRELLI CN36 Tyres online.

 

Why didn't Alpina take off the 13" wheels and go for a 195/60R14? or maybe 205/50R15, or something along those lines. well its becuase it didn't handle as good. 60% profile tyres came out in 1972/3 actually with the CN36 on the 911 RS also in 1975 the Porsche 930 Turbo fitted the 50% Pirelli Cinturato P7 that came out in 1974. Alpina aren't the sort of chaps to faff around. they fitted the tyre that suited the car the best. the 185/70VR13 Cinturato CN36.

 

 

the other big consideration from people is, surely modern tyres are better. It is understandable that people would think that. and they sort of are better in the more suitable enviroment of a modern car, not your 2002:

• a modern tyre has better build quality? - Well it does have better build quality than tyres had in the 1970s. However the build of current Pirelli Cinturato CN36 is done in modern up to date Pirelli factories. so the CN36 has that improved build quality too.
• better rolling resistence? - yep. i will give you that one. modern tyres will be ever-so very slightly, a tinsey winsey bit more fuel efficient. they might save you £1 in every £ 1,000 (i admit i have toatally made that statistic up. we need to get someone clever to shine a light on that one.)
• modern tyres are greener? - well yes modern tyres are greener than the tyres that were made in the 1970s, but not these CN36. The current CN36 are made with modern greener chemicals. On top of that, when Pirelli are considering the build of these CN36, they are aware that these tyres will be fitted to a car that may not do many miles, and the longevity of the rubber and decreasing the perishing is very much a consideration. ( that in itself massively recoupes the £1 in £1,000 that is lost in fuel efficiency)
• modern tread is better in the water? - well if its directional, maybe, or has big fat circumferential grooves then theorietically they should be. However the modern compounds and relatively big gaps around the tread overcome that. look at the scores on here https://cinturato.net/images/test-classic-tyres-0716.pdf it scores a 2+ for wet performance! -1 for turnig and stopping in the wet. amazing for a 1968 tyre, and miles better than the Vredestein wich is just a completely modern tyre with sypes in it! theoretically it should be miles better.
• a modern tyre has more grip? - well sort of, but not in the corners, not on your car which has the wrong geometry. A modern tyre, among other things, presents a wider amount of tread to the road, from which you would hope to get more grip because there is more; but that only works if your chassis has the ability to keep that footprint in contact with the tarmac, which it doesn't unless you have turned your 2002 into a race car, which is not a nice road car. Alpina already did enough of that, and they chose 185/70R13 CN36.
• A modern tyre carcass is better? - Not on your car.

 

 

Regards

Dougal 

Longstone Tyres

[JohnS]

I wonder why Alpina also specified tubes to go with the tyres? Do the Alpina wheels require tubes?

Edited May 15 by JohnS

[jgerock]

I couldn’t find the UTQ specs for these Pirelli’s (I have a set on my 2002).  
 

Three ratings: traction,  treadwear and temperature

[Longstone Tyres]

18 hours ago, JohnS said:

I wonder why Alpina also specified tubes to go with the tyres? Do the Alpina wheels require tubes?

If i could see a picture of the rim i could tell you.

 

this page should answer all your tube questions.

 

Inner Tubes - Classic Tyre Inner Tubes

WWW.LONGSTONETYRES.CO.UK

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To find the correct inner tube for your classic car please choose your classic tyre size from the drop down list below, this will then tell you which inner tube you should fit.

 

 

I made a film on there which i hope demonstrates  things pretty well

 

 

In 1972 Pirelli say fit them

 

 

In 1974 Michelin say fit them

 

Dunlop seem pretty adamant about it too.

 

However i do agree that none opf these are Alpina. The question is did Alpina wheels have a safety rib that makes it a tubeless wheel?

 

Is the 185/70VR13 Pirelli Cinturato CN36 (,and 165R13 Cinturato CN36 for that matter), Tubeless?

 

Yes, all the current range of Cinturato CN36 tyres are tubeless tyres. This means that they can be fitted without an inner tube, assuming they are being fitted to a tubless wheel.

 

All of the 13" and 14" CN36 Cinturato tyres are either full profile or 70% profile therefore they can all be fitted with an inner tube if it is needed.

 

I say - if in doubt stick a tube in it, and dont be tight fit Michelin

 

 

 

[markmac]

Direct from late 70's Alpina catalog on the BMW 320/320i Alpina....

' The Bmw 320/Alpina hs front and rear wheels of different widths: 6x13 in the front and 6.5x13 in the back.  The same tire size (185/70-13) is used on all four tires.  Because of the different widths, there is a smaller area of contact in the front than in the rear, producing a significantly smaller turning radius and allowing easier steering, easier parking, and improved handling.....all of these features contribute to the desired neutral steering characteristics of the car......'  BMW Alpina 320 sans staggered wheels and Pirelli CN36's (itsa good look I think).

[uai]

22 hours ago, JohnS said:

I wonder why Alpina also specified tubes to go with the tyres? Do the Alpina wheels require tubes?

it depends...
There is not one alpina wheel there are lots of alpina wheels
wire spoke
Borrani (cmr steel)
Borrani bimetall
Alpina alloys

No hump = tube

[JohnS]

I was going by that Alpina build sheet above which lists 5 Alpina alloy wheels 5 1/2 x 13".  Then the tires and tubes.  I just thought it was odd that they listed tubes.

[JohnS]

17 hours ago, jgerock said:

I couldn’t find the UTQ specs for these Pirelli’s (I have a set on my 2002).  
 

Three ratings: traction,  treadwear and temperature

+1.  I'd also like to know those UTQ specs for the CN36.  It's kind of weird that it isn't molded into the sidewall of the tire like most other tires and isn't published anywhere that I could find.  

[Buckeye]

Two of 4 tires showed up today.

 

[TobyB]

...i just... can't...

 

t

tried not to.

[Conserv]

On 5/15/2024 at 1:45 PM, JohnS said:

I wonder why Alpina also specified tubes to go with the tyres? Do the Alpina wheels require tubes?

John,

 

In Germany, you are required to use tubes if your rims are not “double hump” (generally denoted as “2H” on the rim). The humps, one at the outer lip, the other at the inner lip, help prevent a tire from breaking its bead seal under hard cornering or other adverse conditions. From what I’ve seen of CMR rims (Borrani and Alpina), double humps didn’t appear on these rims until late in the 1970’s, maybe ca. 1978. Somewhere in the “far-too-long thread” on CMR rims, I mentioned my first sighting of a double hump Borrani and its manufacturing date. I don’t believe there are any double hump Alpina steelies as they ceased production before CMR implemented double humps.

 

Many tires, such as the Michelin XAS (introduced 1966) were only available in tube-type at first. My 1970 and my 1976 came new with tube-type XAS’s, although a few other owners of late ‘02’s report having tubeless versions from new.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[Conserv]

On 5/16/2024 at 12:40 PM, JohnS said:

I was going by that Alpina build sheet above which lists 5 Alpina alloy wheels 5 1/2 x 13".  Then the tires and tubes.  I just thought it was odd that they listed tubes.

John,

 

I’m familiar with the touring tii to which the build sheet refers and the Alpina alloys are the early (1968 - ca. 1972) Borrani bimetal alloys, which were not double hump.

 

If you are running these rims in the U.S., my guess is that you might not be using a tube (unless, like me, you’re running XAS’s, which are only available in tube-type nowadays).

Below, an Alpina/Borrani R1-472, 5 1/2 x 13, bimetal rim. The photo of the barrel shows a “humpless” rim! All of these bimetal rims were humpless.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[Lee74]

Hey all,

 

New here and new to getting a 2002, and was just wondering what all different types and sizes of tires everyone seems to be running on their cars? Has anyone got any experience with the Michelin XDX-B , I see it comes in 185/70R13 86V, not sure what the 86V part of the tire number is? But what other tire brands and sizes are good for these cars, either 13 or 14" ?  Am kinda wanting to stay with the classic look, so something like the Michelin XAS, XDX-B or Perilli CN36 , but just not sure which one would be the best choice. 

Thanks 

Edited May 25 by Lee74
add additional info

[TobyB]

I like the Toyo RA-1 myself...

 

t

 

[visionaut]

On 5/19/2024 at 4:13 PM, Lee74 said:

not sure what the 86V part of the tire number is

86 is the Losd Rating and V is the Speed Rating