2002 Rear panel red reflectors.

[Clem Simmons]

Well it’s Sunday and I am doing one more step on my 02 restoration. I am removing all of the exterior trim and hardware on my totally original car. Each piece to be made perfect again or be replaced. 
 

It is worth noting to those who haven’t looked at these before that with exception to the lenses, the rubber gaskets and cast mounting plates are not the same. They are sided to suit their use. 
 

Note that the cast mounting plate for the driver’s side is 519 1504. The one for the passenger side is 519 0504. 
 

Similarly, the rubber gasket for the driver’s side is 519 85 03. The gasket for the passenger side is 519 95 03. 
 

The reflector lenses appear to be identical with matching numbers -ULO -302 10/20. They are also marked REAR SAE P1A 69. 
 

Photos are attached!

 

For those of you who actually care about these details. 
 

cs. 

[stephers]

So many of these I see on the wrong side    Don't forget that that space in the base seal goes at the bottom of the light   Used as a weep hole

 

Thanks, Rick

[Clem Simmons]

You are absolutely correct Rick. Excellent

observation. 
 

I have all new rubbers for my car and I will sort thru what I have when deciding what to use on my car. 
 

Interesting to note that I was told that the rubber gasket for the front passenger side amber reflector is NLA. I will very careful in how I handle it. 
 

Not to jump ahead but the new units available today do not have the same lenses. I bought all new ones and the new lenses have a circle pattern moulded into the plastic. 
 

I will be restoring my originals but will use some of the new parts as needed such as the little oval head screws to attach the lens to the mounting plate. The lenses appear to be epoxyed to the aluminum mounting bezzles. 
 

Am I anal?  Maybe a little bit. I just hope I can get my car finished before they put me in a home and feed me pablum through a tube. 
 

cs

 

 

[bergie33]

Many Mercedes of the same vintage use the same parts.

[Clem Simmons]

I agree Karl. I will pull out what I have and submit photos. Just have to find them. 
 

cs

 

[visionaut]

3 hours ago, Clem Simmons said:

SAE P1A 69

 

Technically, these aren’t just retro reflectors ( like the fronts, which aren’t lit by a bulb). They’re also side marker lights.

 

P1 indicates a rear side marker lamp (the 1 indicates the certification angle) and the A indicates retroreflector. In this case manufactured in 1969.

 

added: for completeness, later squaretail rear side marker lens carried the designation AP2, where P2 is an improved/replacement certification angle spec. And no mfg year, just 4- DOT.

 

They take a 4W OSRAM 3893, or the slightly taller and longer life Phillips 4.5W 1816.

 

 

Edited July 14 by visionaut
Added squaretail note

[TobyB]

The Mercedes lights, depending on what you get them off of, are usually flat, unlike the 2002 version.

 

For those who really dig into this stuff.

 

me, I get close, and then go drive.

t

 

 

[Clem Simmons]

I agree Karl. I will pull out what I have and submit photos. Just have to find them. 
 

cs

 

[Clem Simmons]

The lenses for the illuminated rear sides are identical to the ones on the rear panel. 

 

Let me get those cleaned up and also get the new ones out and I will post photos FYI

 

No argument either on the Mercedes applications 

 

cs

 

 

[Mike Self]

And...just to add to the minutia...early cars with those side markers--late 68s and 69s, have side marker reflectors with no exterior screw holding the lens to the base.  They have a curved piece molded on the back side of the lens that fits into a slot in the base--easily broken.  

 

One of mine was broken in a little fender bender (guy backed into me at a garage sale!) and it took me several years of patiently looking through salvage yards and swap meets to find a replacement lens assembly without that screw.  

 

mike

[Clem Simmons]

I agree Karl. I will pull out what I have and submit photos. Just have to find them. 
 

cs

 

[Clem Simmons]

Mike

Just to clarify at my end. From what I have here the Red lenses are glued to an aluminum frame or surround. 
 

The aluminum surround / frame / bezel has a countersunk screw hole in one end which takes an alloy oval head standard screw to attach it thru the rubber gasket to the cast aluminum backing plate. See the attached photos. 
 

Is this what you mean?

 

Clem

 

 

[Mike Self]

What you have is correct for the later cars (sometime in 1970-on).  The early ones don't have the screw hole, and the lenses are either glued or otherwise fastened to both the mount and the aluminum trim.  I don't have a completely intact one (that's not on the car) that I can picture, but the rear lens are marked on the outside:  "SAE A 67" , "ULC-51900", and on the red one "REAR".  The lens back side is marked "BMW 135188"

The amber front one has the same markings except "ULC 51920" and "FRONT" on the outside.  The number on the inside is the same.  

 

IIRC there is no metal base, just a rubber gasket that goes between the lens and the car's body, and as best I can tell, there are two studs epoxied to the aluminum frame that go through the car's body and are held with the same plastic dome nuts as the later reflectors..  I noticed a same period Mercedes Benz at a show yesterday with the same "no screw" amber front fender reflectors, so I suspect it's similar if not identical.

 

mike

[Clem Simmons]

Mike

 

Thanks for filling me in. Here we are in BMW University. Learning something new everyday. 
 

clem

 

 

[Pablo M]

On 7/14/2024 at 4:49 PM, Clem Simmons said:

The lenses for the illuminated rear sides are identical to the ones on the rear panel. 

 

 

cs

 

 

I don't think that's correct. Mine look different-the illuminated ones have a small rectangle that's not a reflector, and the rear ones, non illuminated, don't have that little rectangle. 
 

edit: adding older photo after I replaced my faded ones with better used ones. The rear right is what was on the back. The rear left looks like the two on the sides, with the little rectangle. 

Edited July 16 by Pablo M