Chocolate for brakes. The Dreaded Pudding Foot.

[kbmb02]

43 minutes ago, Dudeland said:

Bench Bleed M/C:  No I didn't have the gear to do it, but I may have to rip it out.  Definitely on the table

 

Benefit to a vacuum bleeder is there's no need to bench bleed the master (well, not in my years of usage). -KB

[TobyB]

The only time I've tried bench bleeding is on vehicles that say you have to do it- Chevy S10, I think...

 

It does save some time, but I think it's more for components that have check valves in them...

 

t

 

[Dudeland]

On 8/10/2024 at 10:41 AM, kbmb02 said:

 

Benefit to a vacuum bleeder is there's no need to bench bleed the master (well, not in my years of usage). -KB

 

On 8/10/2024 at 11:09 AM, TobyB said:

The only time I've tried bench bleeding is on vehicles that say you have to do it- Chevy S10, I think...

 

It does save some time, but I think it's more for components that have check valves in them...

 

t

 

The old timers that I learned from (that is waaaay back) said that vacuum bleeders made the bubbles "larger," which made them easier to flush out. 

 

My experience with them is that the attachment at the bleeder seems to draw more air around the bleeder itself than through the line.  I am unsure how much vacuum the line sees and if that could affect the size of the bubbles.

 

I agree that the GM stuff seems to like being bench-bled; I had an old Camaro that the old-timers insisted they needed to bench-bleed.  

 

That Massive Dual thingy may be the play, especially when I go F.I.  No need to fiddle with a vacuum pump. 

 

Thoughts.  

 

It uses Dual Wilwood MC's yes? 

 

 

 

[Son of Marty]

The vacuum bleeder may help on bleeding new parts but leave much to be desired when changing the fluid, with vacuum the new less viscous tends to make a path along the top of the line and leaving some old fluid in the system. 

[2002iii]

4 hours ago, Dudeland said:

 

The old timers that I learned from (that is waaaay back) said that vacuum bleeders made the bubbles "larger," which made them easier to flush out. 

 

My experience with them is that the attachment at the bleeder seems to draw more air around the bleeder itself than through the line.  I am unsure how much vacuum the line sees and if that could affect the size of the bubbles.

 

I agree that the GM stuff seems to like being bench-bled; I had an old Camaro that the old-timers insisted they needed to bench-bleed.  

 

That Massive Dual thingy may be the play, especially when I go F.I.  No need to fiddle with a vacuum pump. 

 

Thoughts.  

 

It uses Dual Wilwood MC's yes? 

 

 

 

I learned from OG Hot Rodders that only had vacuum gauges and their five senses for diagnosis and tuning.

 

Bench bleeding only takes a few minutes and can tell you if your master cylinder is defective.

 

Have you looked at an electric booster setup?

[Dudeland]

9 hours ago, 2002iii said:

I learned from OG Hot Rodders that only had vacuum gauges and their five senses for diagnosis and tuning.

 

Bench bleeding only takes a few minutes and can tell you if your master cylinder is defective.

 

Have you looked at an electric booster setup?

I have looked at electronic booster setups that use the Telsa booster, which is the same one out of a Prius. 

Before I do that, I will take a deep breath and fresh eyes and install the parts I have already in hand, which are an I.E. pivot pin and pedal box rebuild. 

 

Right now I am having a beer about the whole situation.  

 

Regards

 

 

 

[Oldtimerfahrer]

I've also been disappointed with the vacuum bleeder, but I put pipe Teflon on the bleeder valve threads and that seems to increase flow through the tube....

[Dudeland]

I have been reading some on the VW forums.  The MK3 Golf caliper will fit onto the MK2 carrier, and they seem to seize less and have a better handbrake mech. 

 

Has anybody anybody tried doing that?   Also you can run the MK4 caliper with different brake hoses.  

 

 

[uai]

Just fyi
By throwing other hardware at it you won't fix the issue if you're not sure your hardware is defect.
I mounted fresh rebuilt calipers on my car with new Pads all around around 8 weeks ago.
It took 1 Trackday and 2000km now they feel like they should - before I also had a little sponge in there.
When you're not able to lock them I still think it's your master cylinder


 

[Dudeland]

Ok, so I have had a beer about it.   I am going through some more posts.

 

From what I can tell # 11 and #7 are likely "wallerd out" creating some slop, perhaps the pedal itself.   

 

The pedal itself does not move much from side to side on the shaft. I expect the sleeve kit will fix some of that, but it is likely that the pivot point going into the clevis is an issue, no? 

 

Perhaps I need to adjust the #10 bolt on the clevis to take up the slack, but I haven't heard anyone having to adjust that in their car. 

 

I do have the brake booster pivot sleeve to install as well.

 

Just trying to do some armchair ( beach chair) troubleshooting.

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dudeland]

Quick update:

 

I have been following another member with similar problems after installing a @BLUNT ATE brand Tii M/C (allegedly from Blunt). The mechanic diagnosed it as DOA. They replaced it with the old leaky(ish) one, and the low pedal was resolved enough for a successful track day. 

 

Mine is from @Ireland Engineering, ATE brand.   I will be pressure bleeding and adjusting the parking brake to see if I get a pedal. 

 

To be clear, I am not suspect of the M/C but rather the rear disk brake setup. I hate (really hate) the MK2 VW callipers. I had them on a Golf years ago and never got a good pedal out of the car back then. Unfortunately, the Willwood setup does not have a parking brake function; as it is a daily driver, this setup is my only option. 

 

My theory is that the parking brake adjusters aren't taking up the slack between the pads and rotors, causing a very low pedal.  I hate the ratcheting parking brake mechanism, and I cannot get a clear answer on how the cable should be adjusted.  Some sources say they just put about 1mm of tension on the spring assembly, but other examples show it being pulled up all the way.  Theoretically, it should ratchet up as it is used, but ramming it up and down for 15 minutes doesn't seem to do anything (the same way it didn't work 35+ years ago !)    

 

I have had both the parking brake mechanisms out in my hand, and both move freely without any burs that indicate binding.  

 

In addition, the rod linkage/pedals may need to be adjusted/refurbished. 

 

I have a BBK for the front on hot standby, but I don't want to change too much simultaneously, as diagnosing it will be more challenging. 

 

I will measure the brake pressure on all the corners and then discuss the results. 

 

Regards

Edited August 25 by Dudeland
30 years ago.

[Dudeland]

I got one of these to make it easier to reset and hold the rear caliper piston.  It's much better than the adjustable water pump pliers and a clamp.  I will make a 2nd brake pad-looking thing in the bottom middle of the case.  This will allow me to use both of the clamping devices and bleed both rear calipers at the same time. 

 

29$ CDN delivered.  It's a lot better than the $300 I would have had to pay 35+ years ago.  Thanks transparent pricing internet thing cheap shipping overseas parts thing beep boop machine !!!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dudeland]

I feel stupid.  I forgot that the 15" version of the Willwood rear brakes has a parking brake.  I think I must have decided against them at the time. 

 

Buy once, cry once; Now I will need a new set of drive flanges.  Does anybody have a good set in case I go ahead with the Willwoods? 

Edited August 30 by Dudeland
Drive Flanges

[popovm]

Are you gonna try the new tool out first? Wilwoods would be sweet but so would getting the stuff in the car to work. 

[torquewrench80]

Lengthen the pushrod a little which will quite effectively shorten the stroke. I did that on my own Tii when I tried DOT 5 brake fluid. Give it a 1/2 a turn, a full turn, maybe more, and see what happens. The brakes may lock the wheels and refuse to unlock until the brakes cool off or you shorten the pushrod again, so bring your wrenches with you on the road test. Sure, the Blue Book gives you an exact measurement, but who says you can't alter it a little? It's adjustable for a reason.