72 2002Tii running, starting issues.

[dlacey]

7 hours ago, Golfcar said:

My understanding is that a Tii if not real cold (75 degrees) will run with the control box for cold start disconnected. Is that true?

Yes, here in Malaysia at 32C daytime temp my tii will start without it, cranks a few turns longer, but then starts and runs normally.

[tomphot]

On 9/18/2024 at 6:57 PM, dlacey said:

.. can you reach-in with one hand to push down the enrichment lever on the back of the KF pump??  With that you can roughly richen the mixture...can you find a position where it runs better? If yes then it confirms weak mixture...then you can search for the cause.

After reading this it got me to thinking.  I had a WUR hose leak.  It necessitated taking a lot of stuff off to repair.  I neglected looking at the enrichment leaver measurement when done.  It should be 2.6mm.  It’s probably over 3MM when I just looked at it.  Heading out of town for the weekend.  Would that much of a difference cause these issues?  Guess I’ll find out next week. 

[thehackmechanic]

Sorry, late to the party.

 

I've read through it all but may have missed some of the details.

 

I'll disagree respectfully with my bestie Paul Wegweiser. If the timing is set statically with the rotor pointing at the notch when cylinder #1 is at TDC, and if shining a timing light shows the TDC mark or timing ball to move with increasing RPM, then the distributor is advancing and is unlikely to be the problem. In my humble opinion, timing is more a performance issue than an "absolutely runs like crap" issue.

 

If the cold start valve doesn't spray when it's cold, hot-wire it so it does and move on with diagnosing the larger problem.

If the warm-up regulator is retracted when it's cold, and extends to the point where the "verboten" screw on the enrichment arm comes to rest on the stop when it's warmed up, it's unlikely to be the problem. Looked at another way, if the enrichment arm comes to rest on the verboten screw when it's warmed up and the problem still persists, then the warm-up regulator isn't the problem. But yes, make sure that the hose connecting the top of the warm-up regulator to the underside of the intake manifold is secure.

 

You said that you cracked all four fuel lines and had fuel come out, and that the injectors were sent out (presumably for testing and cleaning), but you still need to verify that fuel is reaching them and that they're spraying. At a minimum, with the engine running, hold each plastic injection line between thumb and forefinger and verify that they're pulsing. If they're not, then something's wrong.

 

If I had this car, and was certain fuel is spraying through all four injectors, I'd suspect the condenser. New condensers are absolute garbage. I've had multiple instances of replacing a new condenser with a 30-year-old one dug out of an old box and had the problem go away. If you installed a new condenser along with the new points, either try an old one or install a Pertronix and see what happens.

[tomphot]

5 hours ago, thehackmechanic said:

Sorry, late to the party.

 

I've read through it all but may have missed some of the details.

 

I'll disagree respectfully with my bestie Paul Wegweiser. If the timing is set statically with the rotor pointing at the notch when cylinder #1 is at TDC, and if shining a timing light shows the TDC mark or timing ball to move with increasing RPM, then the distributor is advancing and is unlikely to be the problem. In my humble opinion, timing is more a performance issue than an "absolutely runs like crap" issue.

 

If the cold start valve doesn't spray when it's cold, hot-wire it so it does and move on with diagnosing the larger problem.

If the warm-up regulator is retracted when it's cold, and extends to the point where the "verboten" screw on the enrichment arm comes to rest on the stop when it's warmed up, it's unlikely to be the problem. Looked at another way, if the enrichment arm comes to rest on the verboten screw when it's warmed up and the problem still persists, then the warm-up regulator isn't the problem. But yes, make sure that the hose connecting the top of the warm-up regulator to the underside of the intake manifold is secure.

 

You said that you cracked all four fuel lines and had fuel come out, and that the injectors were sent out (presumably for testing and cleaning), but you still need to verify that fuel is reaching them and that they're spraying. At a minimum, with the engine running, hold each plastic injection line between thumb and forefinger and verify that they're pulsing. If they're not, then something's wrong.

 

If I had this car, and was certain fuel is spraying through all four injectors, I'd suspect the condenser. New condensers are absolute garbage. I've had multiple instances of replacing a new condenser with a 30-year-old one dug out of an old box and had the problem go away. If you installed a new condenser along with the new points, either try an old one or install a Pertronix and see what happens.

Thanks for the reply.

The distributor was tested on a Sun Machine a few years ago and ran great before the rebuild, I don't think that's the issue.

The cold start valve does spray when cold.  I haven't tested the volume.

I just rebuilt the WUR and tested it before installing.  I had a leak on one of the hoses and reinstalled.  I know that I messed up the measurement on the enrichment lever and will reset in the AM.

I had sent the injectors to Vancouver for testing just before the Paul passed and they were fine and didn't need rebuilding.

The biggest issue you bring up is that I did replace the points and condenser!  Nothing was wrong with the old one, I was putting new stuff on.  The other one is still sitting there and I will put it back on.

Thanks much!

[tomphot]

On 9/22/2024 at 2:52 PM, thehackmechanic said:

Sorry, late to the party.

 

I've read through it all but may have missed some of the details.

 

I'll disagree respectfully with my bestie Paul Wegweiser. If the timing is set statically with the rotor pointing at the notch when cylinder #1 is at TDC, and if shining a timing light shows the TDC mark or timing ball to move with increasing RPM, then the distributor is advancing and is unlikely to be the problem. In my humble opinion, timing is more a performance issue than an "absolutely runs like crap" issue.

 

If the cold start valve doesn't spray when it's cold, hot-wire it so it does and move on with diagnosing the larger problem.

If the warm-up regulator is retracted when it's cold, and extends to the point where the "verboten" screw on the enrichment arm comes to rest on the stop when it's warmed up, it's unlikely to be the problem. Looked at another way, if the enrichment arm comes to rest on the verboten screw when it's warmed up and the problem still persists, then the warm-up regulator isn't the problem. But yes, make sure that the hose connecting the top of the warm-up regulator to the underside of the intake manifold is secure.

 

You said that you cracked all four fuel lines and had fuel come out, and that the injectors were sent out (presumably for testing and cleaning), but you still need to verify that fuel is reaching them and that they're spraying. At a minimum, with the engine running, hold each plastic injection line between thumb and forefinger and verify that they're pulsing. If they're not, then something's wrong.

 

If I had this car, and was certain fuel is spraying through all four injectors, I'd suspect the condenser. New condensers are absolute garbage. I've had multiple instances of replacing a new condenser with a 30-year-old one dug out of an old box and had the problem go away. If you installed a new condenser along with the new points, either try an old one or install a Pertronix and see what happens.

 

I adjusted the enrichment lever that out of position, the car now starts.  I also put the original condenser back on.

Before this, we did a cigar test, blocked off the hose going to the WUR and notice zero leaks.

Adjusted the points as best as I could and get a dwell between 60-65.

We then adjusted timing using the ball @ 2500 rpm.

Sounds great at higher rpms.

Searches for idle badly.

The car was at operating temp with the thermostat open.  When I shut it down the last time, it didn't just shut down, it sputtered on with a backfire and a nice big puff of smoke out of the accordion hose where the air filter hooks up.

Ideas?

 

 

 

[dlacey]

From what you describe it just too weak at idle...some tuna can fine-tuning should fix that... try 1/16th -1/8 turn increments anticlockwise

Edited Thursday at 09:24 PM by dlacey
Corrected direction as Rob hilited

[thehackmechanic]

Agree with dlacey. Both idle-hunting and backfiring are signs of lean running.

 

You can adjust the idle mixture using the tiny screw inside the tuna can. Disagree with dlacey on the direction. I always remember it that "lean is in," so to make it richer, you need to back the screw out, which is counter-clockwise. Note that the direction to turn the screw is misprinted in the original tii injection handbook but corrected in many PDF copies. Make tiny adjustments. This almost always cures idle-hunting.

 

If is running fine while driving, don't do anything else for now. But if it's backfiring when you let off the gas while driving, then it's also lean while driving, which is a whole other set of issues that we can advise on.

 

One thing at a time.