72 2002Tii running, starting issues.

[Golfcar]

On 9/19/2024 at 9:45 AM, tomphot said:

Thanks, I was meticulous when installing the plastic runners.  I had 6 to choose from and thought I had picked the best.  Doesn't mean there isn't a leak.  I will do a cigar test later.  I still have the Alum runners that were on another engine that I have just in case. 

This is a good point and was in my mind. As Tom said we will build a smoke test device and see if we see smoke. 

[Golfcar]

On 9/18/2024 at 5:07 PM, OriginalOwner said:

If you've still got points, here's the one that I learned decades ago:  The Point Gap.  I had starting problems on my '74tii and when I checked the point gap, it was nearly closed.  Re-gap'ing to spec solved the problem.

 

And I earned brownie points with a pal a few months later.  Her VW had begun the hard-start problem.  I checked the point gap:  yep, too small.  Re-gap'ed to spec and problem solved.

 

Cheers,

 

Carl

 

Points were installed on the bench. We were careful to rotate the dist through the lobes and check the gap multiple times. Wed the cap was off the engine just happened to with lobe opening the points, didn't use a gauge but my senior experience told me they were dead on. Yeah right! 

[wegweiser]

25 minutes ago, Golfcar said:

Yes, the gauge is old and so is the operator. New rebuilds take time for the rings to seat to achieve a complete seal for compression. This engine has only run 15 minutes. I'm sure the values will go up after a few hundred miles. Sure concern is noted.  

On a "money is no object" concours tii rebuild, $220 is pretty reasonable to make sure the advance curve matches the fuel delivery curve of the pump for proper / optimum performance. If it's a Bosch "002" distributor (those sold throughout the 1980s and later by BMW / Bosch for this application) and not the original "008" unit, it will not be correct per factory on an early tii. 

[Golfcar]

On 9/18/2024 at 6:57 PM, dlacey said:

Hey Gary,

Have you run it long enough to get it warmed up? Does the cold start injector spray ok during initial cold start?
Assuming valve timing/clearance and ignition timing are OK  then its gotta be mixture... can you reach-in with one hand to push down the enrichment lever on the back of the KF pump??  With that you can roughly richen the mixture...can you find a position where it runs better? If yes then it confirms weak mixture...then you can search for the cause.

Yes, it has run a few times, one where the temp gauge came all the way up. We found a leak in one of the KF hoses that we did not replace and had to fix that problem. We have noticed plenty of fuel in the rubber boot when attempting starts so we know the cold start injector is working. Maybe too much. We have done the whole test procedure for startup before on another 72 Tii. Will perform that. My understanding is that a Tii if not real cold (75 degrees) will run with the control box for cold start disconnected. Is that true? I think I did that on another engine I worked on. 

Timing may be off some but during cranking we have been rotating the dist to try to find the right spot. We had it timed correctly before but was suspicious that the rotor wasn't correct so we lifted the dist and moved it one notch over so rotor was pointing directly at the #1 plug. So timing may be off until we get it running again to set it properly with a timing light. We are really suspicious that the intake runners are leaking. BTW this is a concours level car and this engine looks like factory. We tried to use very good condition runners but understand they are hard to seal and prone to leaking.

Thanks,

TBC 

[Golfcar]

On 9/18/2024 at 9:00 PM, dlacey said:

The engine should start on this spray alone, even if KF was in-op for some reason it should still start on the cold start spray.

 

? triple check the firing order?

We got spray, maybe too much. Will perform the test for cold start. Yes, have checked the plug wires twice now. Good to go. Thanks, 

[wegweiser]

"This engine has only run 15 minutes. I'm sure the values will go up after a few hundred miles."

 

tii pistons. Run time on rebuild: 35 minutes. Hopefully your compression numbers will improve. 

[tomphot]

14 minutes ago, wegweiser said:

On a "money is no object" concours tii rebuild, $220 is pretty reasonable to make sure the advance curve matches the fuel delivery curve of the pump for proper / optimum performance. If it's a Bosch "002" distributor (those sold throughout the 1980s and later by BMW / Bosch for this application) and not the original "008" unit, it will not be correct per factory on an early tii. 

It is a 008.  Wouldn’t hurt to send it out nevertheless. 
 

[Golfcar]

13 minutes ago, wegweiser said:

On a "money is no object" concours tii rebuild, $220 is pretty reasonable to make sure the advance curve matches the fuel delivery curve of the pump for proper / optimum performance. If it's a Bosch "002" distributor (those sold throughout the 1980s and later by BMW / Bosch for this application) and not the original "008" unit, it will not be correct per factory on an early tii. 

It is the original Tii 008 dist. We are aware of the differences in the advance curves. We do have an extra 008 dist that I picked up last year but still feel the one installed is fine. We don't think this would keep it from starting but now feel we have a vacuum leak for the intake runners. We are devising a method to test that. Ideas would be appreciated. You must have had a number of dist failures. I get it! 

[wegweiser]

I do this day in and day out for a living...and after 50 years nearly ALL of them are deficient. Having the original unit in my own tii rebuilt / properly curved (which ran "fine" beforehand) yielded throttle response akin to side drafts and much better / smooth performance to 6700 rpm. 

Edited September 20 by wegweiser

[JsnPpp]

7 minutes ago, wegweiser said:

I do this day in and day out for a living...and after 50 years nearly ALL of them are deficient. Having the original unit in my own tii rebuilt / properly curved (which ran "fine" beforehand) yielded throttle response akin to side drafts and much better / smooth performance to 6700 rpm. 

Ok, reading this advice makes me want to send out my 008. Appreciate it @wegweiser!

[torquewrench80]

48 minutes ago, wegweiser said:

I do this day in and day out for a living...and after 50 years nearly ALL of them are deficient. Having the original unit in my own tii rebuilt / properly curved (which ran "fine" beforehand) yielded throttle response akin to side drafts and much better / smooth performance to 6700 rpm. 

Who did you send the distributor to for the rebuild, please?

[tomphot]

3 minutes ago, torquewrench80 said:

Who did you send the distributor to for the rebuild, please?

Advanced Distributors, LLC

WWW.ADVANCEDDISTRIBUTORS.COM

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Advanced Distributors is your source for automotive distributor service. We specialize in precision rebuilds and repair of distributors for most vintage and collector vehicles, including all Lucas, Bosch, Prestolite, and Delco distributors. We service many other brands, so please...

 

[wegweiser]

10 minutes ago, torquewrench80 said:

Who did you send the distributor to for the rebuild, please?

Advanced Distributors in MN. Let him know I sent you. He is a master. 

[Son of Marty]

When starting a reluctant Tii after the 3rd try unplug the cold start injector or you'll flood it for sure.

[Golfcar]

3 hours ago, Son of Marty said:

When starting a reluctant Tii after the 3rd try unplug the cold start injector or you'll flood it for sure.

Yep, been there done that!