Has the Market fallen this hard for our beloved cars?

[Zak]

4 hours ago, TobyB said:

And this was back when you could buy a house with a yard in Seattle for $250k...

In 1980 you could buy a 1,100 sq, ft. 2 bed 1 bath home with double car garage and large back yard in Burbank, CA, a very nice and clean suburb of LA for $60K. A factory worker could afford one and make the payments on a 30 year fixed loan.  Now, the same house is about one million $$$, and you have to be a high earning professional to afford one. The property taxes alone are about $10K. There are no longer any working class families moving to this neighborhood. The "American Dream" has become nightmare for many. 

 

Or, if you had some cash laying around you could have purchased a used Ferrari 246GT Dino in LA in 1980 for just under $20K. That same car now costs $600K +.  The house, though, was an easier purchase and a better investment in the long run. 

 

During the 60s you could purchase a 2nd hand Ferrari 250GTO which is worth $70 million today. At the time $10K could also get you a house in LA. But, the house is worth $ 1 million today. The Ferrari is 70x that amount, which is beyond obscene. The cars in and of themselves are cool, though. 

 

And, there are the ads of the Porsches and BMW M3s from the 90s and early 2000s. what are some of you guys paying for an E30 M3 these days, $100K + ? I'm sorry, but I don't want to come out and look at your $100K + M3s. I'm not impressed, and I could care less. 

 

The only BMW mega $$$$ car that truly impressed me was that # 1 of 2 BMW 700RS. Steve's well preserved NK 1800 is also a most impressive surviving example. 

Edited October 6 by Zak

[der Heilerin]

I can recall picking up a copy of ‘Tradin Times’ in the Detroit area in the late 80s. I was looking for a reliable fun car (VW GTI or equivalent). 

 

There was a  listing for a Toyota 2000GT - I kid you not - $2500. I’d wager the seller did not know what they had. 

[NYNick]

7 hours ago, Zak said:

It's a two seater with a five speed trans and an air cooled 4cyl  1.6L  with twin carbs. And, it sounds like a VW with a similar twin carb set-up. It also has little to no luggage space and the rear seat is useless other than serving as extra luggage space. Other than the 5 speed, the car didn't impress me too much, as it is far less versatile than an 02. Yes, it has nice acceleration out of the hole like all air cooled Porsches and VWs. There is no driveshaft and the engine and trans sit over the rear wheels, giving them a nice bite. One of my friends parked his 356 and purchased an 02 to commute to school. Getting in and out of the Porsche gets tiring. I always preferred the BMWs over the Porsches. 

 

Call me crazy, but I had a 1.8L Fiat 124 Syder with a 5 speed. And, I thought it was a fun car, It was in excellent shape. And, I only paid $1,500 for it in 1982. The same year I purchased my first BMW 1600 for $500. 

It's not like I expected people on this forum to agree, but that's my opinion. Your luggage reference is accurate for modern Porsches, but certainly not old 912's. I fit, uncomfortably, 4 people in that car often. It was never a sedan like the 2002. The trunk was quite large for a sports car (which the 2002 never was) and with two people, you could fit everything you need in there and the folded down backseats. It was quite the tourer.

 

912's vs 2002's, apples to oranges. I always preferred Porsches to BMW's and I still do. This is what makes the world go 'round!

[TobyB]

Quote

In 1980

1980 is about 4 economic decades removed from 1990.

 

The whimpering about 5% inflation completely forgets the 15% version that 

took off in the '70's and didn't really die until Billy Clinty got elected...

 

t

 

 

[Zak]

51 minutes ago, TobyB said:

The whimpering about 5% inflation completely forgets the 15% version that 

took off in the '70's and didn't really die until Billy Clinty got elected...

 

Toby, I'll address the inflation vs. Neocon "Billy Boy Clinty" and his current cadre.

 

Despite what they're telling you, inflation is much higher than 5%. It's more like 30% or higher. It many instances it's 100%. And, that's  based on experience. There are many economists challenging the "Official" statistics which have been formulated to stem the tide of discontentment. 

 

In California, with all its taxes, the prices of basic necessities have skyrocketed. 

 

The classic car culture has always been a major component of Southern California's identity. And, it's still going strong, but the demographics have changed. It's less accessible to many, now. 

 

The E30 M3 appreciation is ridiculous. And for what ? an E30 with a body kit which looks like it was conceived by a teenager. The motor is the only noteworthy part. But, it's essentially a 2002 block with a twin cam head. In Europe  2.0L variants were available. Some kids paid $100K for one and the rest want to top that and pay even more. Who cares ? I certainly don't. So, where does the insanity stop ?

 

 

Edited October 6 by Zak

[Zak]

7 hours ago, NYNick said:

I always preferred Porsches to BMW's and I still do

So, you're a Stuttgart hooligan vs. the Munich folk here ?

 

I'm neither, but I prefer the BMW for its utilitarian features.

Edited October 6 by Zak

[Tdh]

On 10/5/2024 at 8:31 AM, JQ02 said:

.

I suspect a lot of the folks that @Zak is referring to prolly buy one thinking it's cool and then realize it's not a modern car and sell it - 

Bingo! Unless they’re a die hard enthusiast, most people nowadays are so used to the experience of driving a new car (they’re really appliances) that a smelly old car with no A/C that doesn’t get you to 60 in 2 seconds is a lot to put up with. Same thing with motorcycles. They’re hot, smelly, and you stink like a 700 lb hog after a long ride on a hot day.  

[Son of Marty]

Way to close to politics for this board IMHO. I should add I respect all the members of our faq family and their right to a opinion, but as I'm sure your moms told you there is a time and a place for this but it's not here. Again just my 2 cents worth.

Edited October 7 by Son of Marty

[HobieDog]

1 hour ago, Son of Marty said:

Way to close to politics for this board IMHO. I should add I respect all the members of our faq family and their right to a opinion, but as I'm sure your moms told you there is a time and a place for this but it's not here. Again just my 2 cents worth.

Yeah, I’d say that when the invented and mad ramblings of a holocaust denying conspiracy theorist are listed as the unsettling truth “red pill” we’ve probably crossed that line.  Sigh.  
 

[HobieDog]

21 hours ago, Zak said:

. In one of the pics I'm kneeling next to my brother who is standing with my (Babushka ) grandmother behind him.

 

Man, that’s the face of a kid who is pissed off and ready to fight somebody about the rising costs of pashka over the last 3 years 😂

 

[TobyB]

oops sorry- replied to a Slavs thread.

 

my bad.

 

t

fucking off now

[NYNick]

17 hours ago, Zak said:

So, you're a Stuttgart hooligan vs. the Munich folk here ?

 

I'm neither, but I prefer the BMW for its utilitarian features.

Correct, although I have two BMW's in the garage versus only one Porsche, lol.

[Daily02]

Going back to the subject...

Falling prices is good for getting more into the '02 hobby. 

There were so many made that it would be great if a huge aftermarket blossomed yielding lower cost aftermarket parts such as there is for 1969 Camaros and 1965 Mustangs. If the parts market is big enough it could happen. This would counter the current NLA problem.

Finding used 2002's is a joke when absolute unrestorable rusty junk is going for $12K, and something restorable for +$20K that needs another $15K in repairs. I celibrate the prices dropping. 

Get the investors out! Let's drive, and enjoy. That is what made the 2002 famous. Not sitting in garages gaining value. 

Last point enjoy the car even if it isn't perfect. These are almost 50 year old cars. I drove my old rusty junk '02 to the local meets, and really enjoyed it. I doesn't need to be perfect to take it out. 

 

Regards

 

Dono

[JQ02]

11 minutes ago, Daily02 said:

Falling prices is good for getting more into the '02 hobby. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Daily02 said:

Get the investors out! Let's drive, and enjoy. That is what made the 2002 famous. Not sitting in garages gaining value.

I could not agree more! Even having bought at a relative peak. I'll buy another before I sell the one I have (actually will prolly never sell Segundo)

[68gretchen]

Mine will never be sold.