74 tii with 4700 original miles

[Gordon]

I saw this tii last weekend in Peter's shop. It was a customers car that was bought I believe off of Ebay (correct me if I'm wrong). It was stored in a shipping container for some time. When I saw it, the car was going through a small bumper conversion. Peter said the car needed everything, new hoses, rubber, everything that you can think of when a car isn't run for some time. This customer has deep pockets.

http://www.coupeking.com/product_main.php?product_id=380

G-Man

[InkaSteve]

What a waste, left to rot in a hot container...these cars need to be Driven. Not much premium in low miles if you have to replace everything anyway. High miles means someone had many hours of fun and driving pleasure, and the car is usually better because of it. My "new" 74 touring has 175,000 km. and is still as tight as a new car. Glad the previous owner enjoyed it, took good care of it, and didn't keep it on the shelf.

Gordon, are you coming down to drive Highway 33 with us??

[SteveJ]

I have to totally agree with you on this.

A showroom special will be worth $xx, a car with a history could be priceless (or worthless).

Drive your car, enjoy it, make your own history.

Once these cars are gone, all we will have is our memories.

[Craig74tii]

but then, I'm a purist. I didn't let Peter delete my side markers, although he wanted to. Just makes my original tii's worth more

Craig74tii

'72tii in resto

[jerry]

but then, I'm a purist. I didn't let Peter delete my side markers, although he wanted to. Just makes my original tii's worth more

Craig74tii

'72tii in resto

i was thinking the same thing. the car survived all these years and now it get's a bumper conversion. what's next, an S14 engine....????

yea, it's his car to do as he pleases, etc, etc,...

[dubois]

maybe is just how the flash reflected on the chrome. Same argument with wine, why keep all these bottles stored?

[cj]

square tail lights with the Euro bumpers. I think it will look nice. clean and personalized. I'm also a fan of the 13" bottlecaps.

Cris

[Gordon]

Speaking of originality, when I was working in 2004 at Ramstein Air Base for a nice six month temporary duty assignment, I managed to attend several German 02 club "treffens" (02 meetings/show). Several of the 02's at the show had US spec bubble front turn signal lenses. Just as we like to be different with Euro turn signal lenses, they do as well. Now we just have to figure out how to send our spare big bumpers over there and we'll make a fortune, well on second thought...

G-Man

74 tii, original on the outside except for basketweaves, 5 speed, lsd, recarro's, sahara

73 Bavaria, 5 speed, Webers, Alpina's, malaga

70 2800, 4 speed, Euro spec, totally stock, 96K original KM's, granada

91 318i

91 318i parts car

96 4Runner (parts hauler)

[Craig74tii]

they like our US only parts.

I'm sure it'll look good, but it's a time capsule, now it's ruined, IMHO.

Craig74tii

[Delia]

The car will undoutedly look better with the shaved markers and smaller bumpers. Historically, it will be worth less in the longer term, despite its lower miles.

IMO, as a '74tii, it's a very different beast than a '72 or '73. I know 'cuz own one. I'd have no qualms about euro bumpers, turbo flares, blast-o-sonic sound systems, etc., etc.

If this were being done to a '72tii or '73tii, I'd be heading down there personally to "talk some sense" into the owner.

Have you noticed that these low-mileage cream-puffs are nearly ALWAYS a '74? This was after BMW's transition from a well-engineered, compact "driver's car" to "conspicuous-consumer-yuppie-mobile." Between '73 and '74, the dollar fell in value in Germany, and the new, big bumpered, square taillight 2002s were a turn-off to the enthusiast market. With higher purchase prices, BMW's appeal shifted to the gentrified set. The round-tailed aficiandos (OK, cult-members) clung doggedly to their older, well-loved "whispering bombs," or looked elsewhere for perfomance econo-boxes.

Delia

[Craig74tii]

this time I think you're wrong. According to McCartney, production numbers increased when the squaries were introduced.

Craig74tii

'72tii in resto

GO SQUARIES!

[Delia]

Wrong about what?

Did the dollar not fall in value against the German mark in '73-'74?

Were the big bumpers and additional weight not a turnoff to enthusiast buyers? I bought a new, big-bumpered car in 1975, and I was certainly turned off by the additional weight.

Are you saying that a '72/'73tii is the same as a '74?

My '74tii is my daily driver. It's heavier, harder to turn, and feels quite "modern." My '73tii is by far much more "tossable" and fun to drive. It's not unusual for me to jump from one car to the other. I love them both like children - for different reasons.

What do production numbers have to do with it?

Besides, according to Macartney, there were fewer big bumpered tiis (1974) than small bumpered (1972 and 1973) tiis.

Delia

[Craig74tii]

You said

The round-tailed aficiandos (OK, cult-members) clung doggedly to their older, well-loved "whispering bombs," or looked elsewhere for perfomance econo-boxes.

I said production numbers were up. So the die-hard drivers might have looked elsewhere, but sales were up. We all know BMW had nothing to do with the big bumpers. All '74 cars got bigger bumpers, even the Capri I got when I was 16.

My '72 tii is still in pieces so I can't compare. Does anyone have performance data on tii's between '72 and '74?

Obviously there were more roundies made, 2 years compared to 1.

Craig74tii

[Delia]

I said:

"The round-tailed aficianados (OK, cult-members) clung doggedly to their older, well-loved 'whispering bombs,' or looked elsewhere for performance econo-boxes."

Again, how is that wrong?

Production was up because it was no longer Max Hoffman as sole US Importer. Now BMWNA was running the show with Bob Lutz as head of Sales and Marketing. So there was a new image to tap an upscale market that sought higher income buyers to match the higher prices of the cars.

Many of the 1974tii models were coveted for their price by "conspicuous consumers," like a baby Mercedes. The roundies were held dear by enthusiasts based on BMW's legendary virtues of performance and engineering.

On the whole, newer ones just didn't get driven as hard as the earlier cars, nor were they as quick or nimble.

Other import cars instead of an '02? Volvo 142, Saab 99EMS, VW, Audi Fox, Datsun 240Z, Toyota Corolla, and even Ford Capri II.

Delia

[JohnW]

While I think the 72-73 cars are without a doubt better performers than the 74 tiis, I think it's quite a stretch to say the changes BMW made were done to make it a "yuppie" car. It still had the same (in most cases) vinyl upholstery, crappy ventilation, dealer-only A/C, etc. etc. That's hardly what I would call plush, even for 1974. I'm sure that hardcore enthusiasts did prefer the 72-73 tiis, but there apparently were many buyers who were willing to put up with what really only amounted to a modest decrease in performance to own a brand new car.

Interestingly, the 74tii Road and Track tested was quicker than the tii R&T tested in 72, hitting 0-60 in 9.5 seconds vs. 9.8 for the 72, IIRC. One could argue that the 72 is slower because it had a 3.45 rear end, but that tall rear end also enabled it to hit 60 without an upshift to third -- which the 74 with its 3.64 required.

And about the 4,700 mile tii: I think it's great that the owner is personalizing it and having the necessary work done to drive and enjoy it. Sounds like one hell of a unique car just for the low mileage alone.