Another Headlight Bucket Question

[azee]

Hi Guys,

Just to verify....the pict below shows the shallow bucket with the deep grills? If so, I need to replace it with the deep bucket? This is from my 68 1600.

Thanks,

Alan

[02fanatic]

Alan:

The early grills are all the same, except for the black slats that were applied on '02's....1600's & 1802's had silver grills (no slats)...I think that's correct.

As for the "deep vs shallow" terminology, that only applies to the headlamp "pods"...Shallow style pods came along in late '72 and on all '73 US Model '02's - the purpose being to better conform to the stock sealed beam headlamp Federal Lighting requirements here in the US....Halogens were not legal here in those days (too bright!) :-)

The pic you show indeed appears to be a shallow style pod....that would not be "period correct" for an early '02 or 1600. Deep pods however need to have the chrome headlamp surrounds to fill the gap between the headlamp and the front edge of the pod...."except" if you have European headlamps which are deeper and project all the way out flush with the front edge of the pod!

Are you totally confused? :-)

Much confusion results from the Federalization of imported '02's to the US back in the day...the Germans attempted to improvize to meet US Regulations, thus the oddball scenarios here in the US.

John

[Mike Self]

part that actually holds the headlight unit in place and bolts to the body) on USA cars are identical--68-76. The only part(s) that are different are the retainer rings and the grilles themselves. The "deep" grilles use an asymmetrical retainer (the part that hold the headlight beam to its bucket) -- what's showing in your picture--and the shallow grilles have a symmetrical retainer. Both are chrome plated (black ones are used on squarelights). You can mix and match retainers and grilles--they will fit, but 68-mid 72 deep grilles use the asymmetrical retainer and late 72-73 cars use the symmetrical one.

In practice it's difficult to tell the grilles apart even when two different ones are on the same car. After an unfortunate incident with a coyote several years ago, I had a deep left grille and a shallow right one for nearly three years while I looked for a good shallow left grille. No one ever noticed--at a couple of Ofests and other CCA gatherings!

cheers

mike

[TobyB]

There IS something different in the cars, though- it might be the sheetmetal of the nose. Reason I say this is that I have 2 earlier cars, and one has headlights that sit at least an INCH inside the deep grille headlight openings, and another's headlights protrude THROUGH a set of shallow grilles.

I'll take a few pictures, and then see what they look like under the grilles.

I'd never given it much thought, but both cars have had nose jobs-

it's quite possible that the mounting surface for the headlight mounting bucket is in a different place in the car. Easy to measure and find out...

more later,

Toby

[azee]

First off, thanks alot for the detailled responses guys. A newbie like me really appreciates it.

Secondly, I am a little, ok, VERY confused. I'm not sure if its simply a matter of people calling the same parts differently or if I'm completely missing the point.

I'm definitely keeping the deep grills that are shown in the pict. Given that......what exactly is it I need to replace to be correct? Do I...

-...need asymmetrical retainer rings? (although Mike says that is what is showing in my pict?)

or

-...need deep pods with chrome headlight surrounds? (but I thought "part that actually holds the headlight unit in place and bolts to the body) on USA cars are identical")

Sorry for the total confusion on my part guys!

Thanks in advance...

Alan

[TobyB]

Actually, Alan,

from what I can see, that's a shallow grille with the right depth 'stuff' (whether it's bucket or metal, I dunno) behind it. It's missing the spacer 'ring' that fills in the gap, and it looks like the headlight's not rotated correctly. But it could just be the picture.

Time for a grille faq- I'll take the camera to the garage today.

t

[Mike Self]

retainer ring incorrectly installed so it doesn't fill the space between the headlight beam and the back side of the grille. Looks like it's rotated from its correct position.

You almost have to measure the part of the grille that surrounds the headlight (measure at 6 o'clock position) to tell shallow from deep..the difference is about an inch.

If I look at my stock 69 and 73 side by side, the 69's headlights seem to be sunken in their surrounds, while the 73 looks a little bug-eyed...and the headllight buckets are identical (check the part numbers for USA headlight buckets--they're the same for all USA cars).

What a confusin' situation this has turned out to be!

mike

[azee]

I'm pretty sure its the deep grill. I've got a shallow grill at home that, when compared side by side, is definitely shallower than the one in the pict. I've included 2 more picts of the same grill/headlight that hopefully show it a little better?

YES, a grill and headlight FAQ would be great! It's kinda fun (and frustrating) to do the detective work and figure out what kinda monkeying the previous owners did the my 68 over the car's 38 years being on the road!

Alan

[Mike Self]

(nt)

[02fanatic]

Ok...I gotta chime in here...:-)

First of all, Mike is correct about the headlamp "bucket" statement...but I don't think Alan was talking about the buckets..he is talking about the "pods"..right??

The pic is confusing...I thought it was a shallow pod because the bottom of the headlamp is almost touching the surround...in a deep pod, there would be at least about 1/2" to 3/4" to leave room for the chrome insert surround that needs to be used with the deep pods.

But, that being said, it "could be" a deep pod with the headlamp misaligned so the bottom protrudes outward...

So, which is it Alan?

Here's a way to know for sure...and I'm going from memory so I could be of a 1/4" or so..

On a deep pod grill if you measure from the top of the clear reflector to the edge of the chrome pod you should get about 2-3/4" or so...but on a shallow pod grill you will only get say 1-3/4"..much less...honestly, I forget the dimension.

Alan, go measure like I said and report back..then I can tell you for sure which it is.

Believe me, I've done more research on this than I care to think about over the years! I have shallow pod grills on both my tii's because I prefer the look with Hella H4's...waaay cooler! :-)

Hope this helps,

John

[eastsidebimmer]

Not sure if the headlights are right--but this is my 68 2002.

Ben

[eastsidebimmer]

Not sure if the headlights are right--but this is my 68 2002.

Ben

[02fanatic]

Those pods look "deeper" to me than Alan's....beautiful car btw! :-)

[Armond]

I have a 73Tii and have that "gap" as well. It only became more noticeable when I switched to Bosch H4's. Am I missing a "filler" or retaining ring of some sort?

[02fanatic]

When I get home I'll try to remember to post a pic of my shallow pod grills with H4's...a little gap up high on the outside of each lamp is normal with shallow pod grills...but on the bottom the headlamp actually protrudes out ahead of the pod itself or is basically flush - no gap

John