tires and wheels Supercharged food for thought.....

[winstontj]

In looking at different types of I had a random thought that a tii crank pulley and a K-Fish drive wheel would be a perfect solution to drive a supercharger. The belt already exists, the wheels already exist and even the brackets and fittings already exist.

Has anyone ever done this? Basiclly take a tii setup, remove the K-fish and install a SC in it's place? For fuel delivery use MS and you should be all set. Can anyone see a downside to this? I'm very much in favour of SC over turbo but up until now have not considered it a realistic option because of the massive amounts of fabrication that would be involved. Now knowing that it could be done fairly easily means that my plans of using an S14 Evo crank in an M10 block and a SC could come more of a reality.

I have two complete SC setups from a VW Corrado G60 and now have the BMW intakes to pull this off. Has this ever been done (and documented) before?

Thanks,

TJW

[mleach]

IM sure there have been supercharged m10 motors, though I haven't seen any. Basically the rule of thumb when it comes to Motorsports is this, if you've thought about going faster, so has someone else, and the guys that get paid to go fast have tried just about everything.

That said, I love the idea, and would rather super charge an M10 than turbo it.

Let me know how it works, or if you want to share the love with some of those parts.

matt.

[BarryA]

couple of years ago that was supercharged? Haven't tried to dig up the info on it, but pretty sure I remember seeing some posts about it......

[winstontj]

IM sure there have been supercharged m10 motors, though I haven't seen any. Basically the rule of thumb when it comes to Motorsports is this, if you've thought about going faster, so has someone else, and the guys that get paid to go fast have tried just about everything.

That said, I love the idea, and would rather super charge an M10 than turbo it.

Let me know how it works, or if you want to share the love with some of those parts.

matt.

I recently came into an S14 evo (2.5L) crank for very short money. I'll refer to it as a 2.5L although in an M10 the 2.3L and 2.5L S14 cranks actually only turn out to be about 2.135L and 2.3L rather than what they are in the S14 because of bore.

I've wanted to use the evo 2.5 crank in the M10 but haven't because to make a NA motor with that displacement you would be limited by the head and valves - which means that you'd have great low end power and torque but top end you'd be the same as a 2.3L stock S14 crank. If I could find a simple way to SC the M10 I believe that the evo 2.5L crank would make an amazing motor. This still would need a custom intake as I believe that even the E30 intake would be too limiting for this kind of displacement and power. For starters though I think that the E30 intake would be a great platform to begin with and then do some R&D work from there to make a bigger plenum, better designed runners, injector placement, etc.

Just throwing this idea out there... maybe it will change someone like PSloan over to the world of SC rather than turbo....

[PSloan]

I dont have the bank to pull a complete switch at this point - nor do i have the fabrication skills. where on earth did you find an evo crank?

[winstontj]

I dont have the bank to pull a complete switch at this point - nor do i have the fabrication skills. where on earth did you find an evo crank?

Found it from a Brit. A dude I know was doing a sailboat delivery from Cowes (in England) to Miami and then on to the BVI's for the winter. I paid $100 (Pounds) for it and my buddy picked it up while he was in England. He carried it over on the boat and shipped it to me from Miami.

I also have a second one that I bought for $75 with a spun bearing - it's pretty rough and I don't know that I would ever use it but I couldn't resist for $75.

The evo crank is cool - but NOT CHEAP because of the need for custom everything. Rods, pistons, bearings... you name it and you need it custom.

Would make a really cool stroked M10 though.... Never mind a cool stroker S14 - some guys would give a n*t to get their hands on a good evo crank...

[PSloan]

Could you have the journals on the bad one turned and use oversized bearings? If so, I may want it.

[winstontj]

Could you have the journals on the bad one turned and use oversized bearings? If so, I may want it.

Right now it's in Vermont being copied into a CAD file. Some of the guys on s14power.com's forum wanted the file. I was contemplating getting the CAD specs and having a billet one made but that's a huge undertaking. I could get the steel for free however the S14 cranks (and especially the evo cranks) are all Nitride dipped and hardened. You'd have to re-harden it if it were ground and it would be rolling the dice if you just ground one down. It would be best to grind down all of the bearings (this is a spun #3 rod bearing) to the same specs and harden, polish, harden, polish over and over till it's perfect. The cost of doing that alone rivals the cost of buying a custom billet crank for $2,500 brand spanking new.

FWIW I hadn't ever thought of selling it but depending on how bad it is I might. I haven't brought it to a shop to have it looked at because of the hardening issue. I simply bought it just to hang on a wall and look at it.

[Pinepig]

A G60 ( Corrado owner here ) will never push enough air for a 2.3l motor.

In my 2 liter Corrado with a ported head I can only get 15 PSI out of it with a 65mm pulley. That limits the motor to about 6000 rpm and then you run into the supercharger redline ( ever seen a G60 grenade? ).

While the ports on an M10 head flow quite a bit better than the crappy VW 8v head I doubt you could get the G60 to supply more than about 9 psi to the motor you are going to build.

An eaton off the 2.3 Mercedes ( M90? ) would be a much better choice.

Another thing is the noise, Eatons, Lysholms etc make a CRAPLOAD of whine if placed before the throttle body, I shit you not when I tell you it'll sound like a firetruck driving down the road.

[winstontj]

A G60 ( Corrado owner here ) will never push enough air for a 2.3l motor.

In my 2 liter Corrado with a ported head I can only get 15 PSI out of it with a 65mm pulley. That limits the motor to about 6000 rpm and then you run into the supercharger redline ( ever seen a G60 grenade? ).

While the ports on an M10 head flow quite a bit better than the crappy VW 8v head I doubt you could get the G60 to supply more than about 9 psi to the motor you are going to build.

An eaton off the 2.3 Mercedes ( M90? ) would be a much better choice.

Another thing is the noise, Eatons, Lysholms etc make a CRAPLOAD of whine if placed before the throttle body, I shit you not when I tell you it'll sound like a firetruck driving down the road.

That sux... so your telling me that my g60 SC's are junk (to me)....

Is there a quiet alternative? Don't you have to put the SC before the throttle plate always?

[PSloan]

Sounds like t4 time for winston

[Zenon]

In looking at different types of I had a random thought that a tii crank pulley and a K-Fish drive wheel would be a perfect solution to drive a supercharger. The belt already exists, the wheels already exist and even the brackets and fittings already exist.

Not a bad idea but... The tii pump belt is pretty narrow and thin and the Kfish pump itself does not require much torque. I doubt the stock tii belt can transmit more than 1/2hp before it will jump cogs or destroy itself. It was toothed mainly to maintain the pump's relationship to the crank, not for power transmission.

There may be other industrial belts with the same tooth pitch/shape/depth that are stronger but you are still very limited by the belt width, small primary pulley size (less teeth in contact, sharper bend) and will very probably need to add a tensioner.

regards,

Zenon

[Pinepig]

A G60 ( Corrado owner here ) will never push enough air for a 2.3l motor.

In my 2 liter Corrado with a ported head I can only get 15 PSI out of it with a 65mm pulley. That limits the motor to about 6000 rpm and then you run into the supercharger redline ( ever seen a G60 grenade? ).

While the ports on an M10 head flow quite a bit better than the crappy VW 8v head I doubt you could get the G60 to supply more than about 9 psi to the motor you are going to build.

An eaton off the 2.3 Mercedes ( M90? ) would be a much better choice.

Another thing is the noise, Eatons, Lysholms etc make a CRAPLOAD of whine if placed before the throttle body, I shit you not when I tell you it'll sound like a firetruck driving down the road.

That sux... so your telling me that my g60 SC's are junk (to me)....

Is there a quiet alternative? Don't you have to put the SC before the throttle plate always?

Sorry man the G60 just aren't gonna cut it for your application. Sadly the G60 is one of the quietest superchargers out there, anything with lobes or screws is REALLY REALLY LOUD. I'm not sure about the vortech style ones ( big gear driven turbo looking things ).

You can indeed mount the TB on the other side of the supercharger, Mazda and Mercedes do it, so can we. It really cuts down on the noise at idle.

Also remember that it takes HP from the crank to spin that supercharger to pump the air. At high RPMs an Eaton ( our sized motors ) can easily take 50hp to make that boost.

The easy way to think about it, if you have a 10psi turbo motor and it puts down 200hp the same exact motor with a SC at the same 10 psi would only put down 150. Put that ( and some KGB ) in you pipe and smoke it.

That being said a SCed motor does feel exactly like a naturally aspirated motor from the get go as boost is being made all the time and a turbo motor always has a little lag.

[Golf72]

If it is of interest to anyone, leads on the GRM Challenge car are at http://www.mongrelmotorsports.homestead.com/. There was a fairly nice layout in the Dec 2002 GRM as noted on the website. These guys are fabrication maniacs and it might be an effort to match what they did. Also their plan of action was heavily influenced by $2002 Challenge rules. A less "scavenger hunt" like approach might yeild something different.

[Guest]

I have alway's loved this set-up,

http://www.camdensuperchargers.com/index.php?pag=204

FWIW, you can still buy the evo s14 2.5L crank through your dealership, $800-$1,200 I think.