engine and drivetrain Easiest Way to Change Engine Gaskets / Getting best seal

[wake74]

Since my daily driver is leaking oil horribly at the area around the timing cover / oil pan junction, I have to change the seals. I am going to change the timing cover and the oil pan gaskets.

In my mind I have a few options:

1. Replace with engine in place. I tried this once but found it almost impossible to ensure a good seal on the oil pan gasket in this position.

2. Pull engine / tranny from top. I have a hoist, and pulled the engine when I replaced the auto with the 4-speed. Plusses-I have done it before, and it is a safe method. Downside, lots of work, and I found it very difficult to get angle required for the balancer to clear.

3. Pull engine / tranny / crossmember from the bottom as one unit as described on this board in various posts. Seems straight forward, but I don't think my floor jack and jack-stands will lift high enough for it to clear the front. Since I'm doing this myself, there seems to be a lot of balancing involved.

4. Hold engine from top with hoist, drop cross member. Change gaskets with engine in place.

Question #1. Anyone ever try #4? I'm curious if I can change the front timing cover gaskets with the engine in place. I'll pull the radiator with any of the above options.

Question #2. What is the general consensus on the best way to insure that the gaskets don't leak. Use the gaskets dry? RTV? Any special gasket dressing?

Thanks!

Glenn

[wegweiser]

Hey Glenn!

I've performed this very "resealing" project several times with motors in the cars. Here's what has worked for me in "less than ideal" home garage conditions: (and yeah...it's not a fun job)

1) after removing grilles, radiator, etc - pull off crank pulley, valve cover, chain tensioner piston, and reseal covers with this combination:

Though there are dozens of expensive whizbang sealants out there (HondaBond, Wurth, etc) I've had good luck with easily obtainable Permatex products for DIYer use. I use the HARDENING BROWN Permatex gasket maker on the covers - and "glue" the paper seals to them, before installing them onto the motor - where I use the BLACK NON-HARDENING Permatex between paper and engine block / cylinder head.

2) After you've done the timing covers - making sure NOT to put any sealant where the lower one will meet the new oil pan seal - go for the oil pan seal job. I've used a combination of floor jack, loosening / removing the motor mounts, and even braced the motor on the driver's side with a solid (2" x 2" x 12"?) block of wood (under the intake manifold on carbed cars) against the steering box bracket. A 2 x 4 on it's side between the passenger side mount and the subframe works perfectly for that side. Not ideal - but if you use your head, surprisingly stable. I loosen as MANY oil pan bolts as possible BEORE raising the motor on blocks / jack - thus reducing the time I'm under an "un-mounted" engine. You should be able to reach all but 1 or 2 easily. Once the pan is completely loose - you can fish it out between the subframe and the block. repeat the gasketmaker combo above (hardening stuff to glue the gasket on to the pan, non hardening to seal it to the engine.

Make all surfaces spotlessly clean. clean the threads on all bolts...yes.....ALL. Brakleen / 2+2, threadchasers, whatever. Do NOT overtorque the oil pan (or ANY) of those small bolts - they require very little torque to do their job - and aluminum is soft - and they're OLD! I use only a delicate 1/4" drive ratchet for all of the above work. I splurged on a Snap On version - 'cause they just FEEEEL so good. Most stuff I go Craftsman, but their ratchets feel too crude for my tastes.

I did a huge write up on this job on a tii, a few years ago... I bet it's out there somewhere in the FAQ.

HTH!

Paul

[DanOKC]

My recent experience with permatex ultra grey has converted me to use it for 02 front covers, but, I have used the non-hardening permatex type many times before & had good results with it also. I have seen problems with where the head got milled, or replaced & the front cover was incorrect height, if it's too tall or too short, it will never seal good. Also be sure the lower front cover sits perfectly even/flat with the top of the block.

[Mike Self]

seal, and make sure the new one is riding on an un-worn spot on the crank/pulley (you might need to make a spacer to put behind the new crank seal to move it off the old one's wear mark.

mike

[rami]

here is a link to Paul's great writeup. I just did this a month ago. Very satisfying repair.. stopped most of the oil leaks on my car. Another thing.. if the oil pan hasn't been off recently, make sure the oil pump chain isn't too loose. I had to add a couple shims to mine. made the engine a lot quieter.

[PSloan]

I took the engine out and did the rear main seal and clutch at the same time. I was replacing the head though.

[jerry]

i was under the impression that permatex gasket goo is only necessary when the mating surfaces are not completely clean and are questionable.

it is my understanding that the only locations that were designed for gasket goo are at the triple-point junctions between the oil pan, lower timing cover, engine block and engine block, upper and lower timing cover. additionally, bolt tightening sequence can also play an important role in proper seating. i treated the tightening of the timing covers in a similar manner as tightening the head to the engine block. a torque wrench makes this a simple process and takes the guesswork out of it.

i did use a gasket spray adhesive on both sides of the gaskets primarily as an assembly aid and to bridge any very small discrepancies in the mating surfaces. all surfaces were wiped clean with laquer thinner prior to reassembly. i did have to cut the protruding ends of the timing cover gaskets flush prior to installing the oil pan and valve cover gaskets.

there was a thread about gasket goo on the forum about 6-7 months ago and my take on it was that it was not required nor originally intended by the OEM. i guess i'll find out soon enough if this works.

[Guest Anonymous]

I was looking at some 70's magazines and enjoyed Permatex's ad that claimed they ran an engine for an extended "stressful" period - with no gaskets - only Permatex. Needless to say, if all 02 parts were machined to NASA-like tolerances, goop - any brand - would be practically unnecessary.

Lets face it, 30 years old parts get banged around, machined by "this" much, and left with old gaskets and other materials when installed. Few of us operate in a room clean enough for surgery although I started doing my own work when I realized how filthy my mechanic kept his shop. The point is that gasket sealant is an insurance policy and like insurance, it is necessary when the unforeseen occurs.

I vote for permatex aviation goop.