how "original" is a 2002 without orange peel?

[dubois]

a thread below got me thinking. I wonder if any of old timers can chime in. I understand that throughout the life of the cars, they may have been color sanded and polished. I am wondering if anyone remembers what they actually looked like off the factory floor.

I personally don't like the "hot August night" look, (strange that I own a body shop), it seems that those cars are unnaturally perfect.

Given that I am embarking on repainting the Alpina, I would like to keep it as vintage as possible, would that include certain amount of orange?

[Guest Anonymous]

The 02's had very nice paint. I recall one dealer who sold america made and BMWs that would repaint hi US upper end stuff so it looked as good as the 02's

[tjones02]

Very little, only the slightest hint of orange all over, hardly noticeable. In the door jams, trunk under the hood all the same as on top of the car other than the ocational thin spot in the deep recesses under the hood. I've seen dirt and rough spots under the hood and trunk too. I've seen drips here and there but never any more than a few, and never a fallen wave. The lower parts of the nose and doors also have the same narry a hint of orange as the tops of the hood, trunk, and hood, never more.

My dad's tii had a drip near the front roundel on the hood, another few in the door jams and another few elsewhere around the car. 2760007 was also buffed prior to it's purchase as new by my parents in Feb '72 we suspect it was on the floor at the LA auto show in Jan '72 but have not found proof yet. Three or four spots were buffed down thin to near primer, one on the ridge in the center of the hood just above the roundel, and one on the driver side of the hood near the top of the door, and two more I can't quite remember where.

Other than those rubbed through spots from having been buffed out it never looked as though it was color sanded/ rubbed/ of buffed out. One could not see any more but the ocational hint of peel on the car.

In the cowl there are the painted sound pads, they never had that thick paint look to them and you could see where some primer shown through next to them on the inner edge. Around the vents on the hood also never had a thick paint look to them.

With garaged Berkeley area life the paint lasted the better part of 30 years before we decided it was time for new.

Other original low mile '02s i've grown up seeing had the same hint of orange and never looked as though they had been buffed out.

Hope this helps. I'm glad to finally see the metal flake silver removed from that car, it's been a long time comming. It deserves the best Glasurit you can throw at it. :-)

[Mike Self]

exterior, and "hidden" places like the undersides of the trunk, hood, door jambs, heater plenum chamber, trunk, engine compartment etc were nearly as good. That's one of the things that really impressed me with the car when I bought it (new). The finish on the "hidden" places was so nice I waxed 'em! And a lot of that paint is still on my car, looking good after 38 years.

While the 73's exterior was as nice as the '69s (and I bought it 5 years old) the finish on the hidden areas wasn't quite as nice as the earlier car. A sample of one isn't really a sample, but I would say that the paint quality on the later cars (at least beyond the exterior) wasn't quite as good as the earlier cars. Still light years ahead of US and Japanese cars of the period, though.

mike

[Guest Anonymous]

My family has had 02's coupes and bavarias and while the fit and finish were pretty good, they were far from perfect. With all due respect to Dr. Self, I think Mercedes owned the concession on best finish Germania. Porsche was also in the running.

The chamonix looked great, but was obviously resprayed. The inside truck lid was full of drips. We chalked it up to damage in transit or "marine transit."

Coupe gas lid was different shade of metallic blue. Looked great unless you looked too close. Paint on front valence panel looked like it wasnt painted with the rest of the car and someone said, Hey, are we going to cover that? It had a few paint flakes that looked as though they were foreign to the car.

Atlantic 02 looked especially good. But after a few serious waxings, it was obvious that the paint was very thin on the hood, roof and drivers door. I suspect the dealer may have buffed the living hell out of the paint to achive a showroom finish at the expense of paint longevity. Got to the point where we were afraid to waz for fear the car would turn primer gray.

Dare I say it, I think paint is partly the luck of the draw. I am sure finishes differed from Colors to appliers to dates of application. I think the finish was above average, but few would be confused with 30 coats of hand rubbed lacquer. Will agree that engine bays always seemed exceptionally nice, but then I have to ask compared to what? my American cars were mostly flat black in that department.

Caution, your memories may vary!

[f1reverb]

basically on the horizontal surfaces there isn't any OP, and just the slighest on some of the vertical sections. The biggest problem they had was on some metallic paint on '73s and '74s where the surface wasn't prepped right and one guy I knew back then had the entire trunk paint separate from the body in one piece! I wouldn't try and get orange-peel if I were you.

[Napes]

80% of my ' 75 Chamonix paint is original, and there's no orange peel. As said above, maybe it's the luck of the draw.

Bob Napier

[Guest]

no orange peel

I too waxed interior surfaces.

I knew of a multi car dealer who repainted the upper lux new american cars so that they looked as good as the BMWS

[tjones02]

(nt)

[Delia]

My '74 Amazonasgrun had just a hint of orange peel. Since the cars were sprayed with cosmoline from the factory, the methods of its removal depended on who prepped the car. Mine was sufficently buffed and shiny when I picked it up in the late winter of 1975.

Because your car is silver, and depending on the year, it may have a two-stage (color and clear) paint job. It was an extra cost item, and the surface could be rubbed a bit more vigorously than the solid colors to level the surface clear coat and produce an amazing shine. Tragically, the two-stage process had problems that led to checking, dulling and crazing in the sun, and it took almost no time for them to require a re-do. The factory helped out on the related costs, but still, I tend to doubt if there is an original, Polaris, Fjord, Taiga, or Ceylon out there with the anything resembling the original orange peel or lack thereof.

I'd say since it's not original, make it as nice as you want. It's as vintage correct as any survivor.

Cheers!

Delia

[dubois]

Hope this helps. I'm glad to finally see the metal flake silver removed from that car, it's been a long time comming. It deserves the best Glasurit you can throw at it. :-)

you also noticed the flake silver!

Evidence of runs (or drips) in the original paint are an indication that the painters were good! This may sound strange, but good painters know that they need to shoot at the very limit to make that clear flow. One could paint all day long, and never have a run - but anybody can do that, the quality of the paint job, however, suffers. At one end of the spectrum we have orange peel, at the other end we have Niagara falls. The most beautiful paint jobs out of the booth, are achieved just before you get to Niagara falls. It just takes a lot of experience and confidence to shoot at the very limit - not me unfortunately!

So small drips here and there tell me that the painters were instructed to make that clear flow to get a smooth paint job and they were not afraid to leave their signatures here and there. (shop talk)

So smooth it is, now I have to find the correct polaris - I am still looking all over the car to find an "original" spot. No it won't make it to Palo Alto this year :-(

[InkaSteve]

So small drips here and there tell me that the painters were instructed to make that clear flow to get a smooth paint job and they were not afraid to leave their signatures here and there. (shop talk)

Whoever painted the touring actuallly did sign it...found a signature under the rear roundel.

They really did a nice job though...

My 76 still has the original paint, and I have always been impressed as to how smooth it is. It is still nice to look across the hood.

[Guest Anonymous]

next month, Michael - I'll have my almost 100% original paint '69 Chamonix sunroof, and Larry Walker's '73 Sahara non-sunroof tii should be there also.

Larry's car may be one of the most original, untouched cars in existance - if I remember correctly, it's well under 100k original miles, has lived in a garage it's whole life, and was never permitted to oxydize.

The only part of mine that's ever had paint work is the passenger side of the hood (best info I have from previous owners is that it was repainted when the car was new due to a shipping ding), and as far as I know, it's never been color sanded or hit with a power bufffer. When I got it, the paint was pretty dull, so it has had a fair amount of cleaning of the original surface prior to waxing & it does have 200K + on it, so it's been exposed to the weather (navy interior, Ronal 13" alloys, Cibie 45 fogs, CA black plate ZOS 311).

A local acquaintance who's done a LOT of repairs and repaints on 50's / 60's euro cars once described the factory surface finish of German cars from that era as having a "platelet" effect, like thousands of little 2-4mm polygons edge to edge - nowhere near as "rough" as orange peel.

[tjones02]

The original paint is Glasurit/BASF why not use that? I'd think they would have the best color match. Spies Hecker is another german brand that others have used for good color match.

What brand does your shop use for paint?

I thought my detailed memory of my parent's tii would come in handy one day. We always taped off those thin spots when we polished the paint before every waxing. My Dad has always loved that car and the love of '02s and BMWs has rubbed off on me.

[dubois]

The original paint is Glasurit/BASF why not use that? I'd think they would have the best color match. Spies Hecker is another german brand that others have used for good color match.

What brand does your shop use for paint?

I thought my detailed memory of my parent's tii would come in handy one day. We always taped off those thin spots when we polished the paint before every waxing. My Dad has always loved that car and the love of '02s and BMWs has rubbed off on me.

It looks like I will be in Palo Alto looking at original paint jobs. We use PPG, but in the past we have used Sikkens (my favorite), BASF, Dupont. I stick with what we know now, so it will be PPG system, but the clear is going to be a very, very expensive one, fortunately my jobber is pitching in and "donating 5 quarts.