engine and drivetrain BMW 2002/tii prices VS early 911 T/E/S (1967 - 1973)

[Guest Anonymous]

As far as the Porsche mystique is concerned; they EARNED it. They worked hard at designing, building and racing their cars. They built only sports/grand touring cars, and pure race cars. James Dean had little market impact for Porsche. McQueen came to Porsche at a time when Porsche was already becoming a household name in the US, due to their increasingly frequent overall wins in major endurance racing, and the growing popularity of the 911 (which was far more practical/marketable than the 356). BMW, with the exception of the European Touring Car Chamionship series, really did comparitively little in the way of racing, post-war. Although they were a well respected name among the knowledeable car guys, they built cars primarily for transporting the family, and going to the grocery store, rather than building sports/GT cars (the 507 being the notable exception). So, small wonder that they haven't got the mystique surrounding the marque that Porsche has.

You pretty much answered the question. But I think you vastly underestimate marquee value. You claim Dean's death in the Lil Bastard had little market impact. and McQueen came to Porsche. So what?

The reasons for the Dean and Mcqueen association with Porsche are unimportant. The fact that we are discussing this NOW furthers both the celebrity of the Marque as well as the late actors. Both figures caused members of the public who were not sports car aficianados to take notice of the Marque - not necessarily because of what was being accomplished by Porsche. Idol worship is a strange phenom. Given the right circumstances, that same thing translates indirectly if not directly into desire and sales.

[Guest Anonymous]

What Home Depot do you park at? I guess it depends upon your neighborhood. I find in the big city I am more apt to draw the the wrong kind of attention and have lost anything that is not welded to the car - badges and insignia.

Besides, I only find my 330 GTC good for carrying bags of nails and a few power tools. Would love to see how you mount the heavy lumber and plywood sheeting. How many board feet can you carry?

[c.d.iesel]

..

...

...... BMW 2002/tii prices VS early 911 T/E/S (1967 - 1973) = whatever .

just drive and shutup. thairs more important things in life

then CAR VALUES.

Capt. Mary J. Literski, a nurse with the 452nd Combat Support Hospital, treats

Zahida, a 10-year-old Afghan girl who lost both legs

to a landmine. When Zahida arrived at the 452nd, she

was near death from blood loss. The 452nd surgeons

decided she needed whole blood, and four units were

drawn from donors. Altogether Zahida received 15

units of whole blood, plasma and red blood cells. She is

recovering, and said through a translator that she is

glad for the doctors and nurses who give her toys

and ice cream.

[Guest Anonymous]

CD:

Some of us find discussions like this as but a momentary respite from the burdens and perils many of us confront on a daily basis. Bad weather, world hunger, natural disasters and health issues are among the many many things this forum could be entirely devoted to. This is not a slight on the significant concern you highlight. But suggesting that to just drive and shutup is bizarre. When Mercedes suffered a catastrophic accident in the '55 Lemans, would your advice have been "on with the race?" When, where and how we pause to reflect may not always be but it should be a personal decision. When those decisions impact you in some measurable way, then please speak up.

Please, stick to things car related. You do not have to assert yourself as my moral compass.

Respectfully.

[osbourne]

As the uncle of an Army Ranger, who's constantly involved in operations "over there" (which he's not allowed to talk about), as well as being the uncle of an MP who's served two tours in Iraq, and has the wounds to show for it, as well as being the father of a son who's planning to enlist upon completion of his BA degree: what a dumb, and off-topic response!

You have either a lot of nerve, damned poor judgement, or both to come up with such a response to people you will probably never get to know.

Shame on you, and grow up!

[WH]

I would second that opinion, the pictures are a great way of putting things into perspective, but have nothing to do with the topic discussed. Cars are a fact of our existance. I enjoy discussing them, especially old ones and their "worth". It has nothing to do with the war in Iraq and the problems there, much of which is due to the US involvement in the region.

WH

[Guest Anonymous]

more....(In respect for others I deleted what I originally wrote here....but "jagoff" was one thing that came to mind..... Personally I thought it was an interesting topic with virtually every reply thoughtfully stated (save the one above unfortunately). I actually dont have a 2002, tii, or Porsche...but appreciate them for what they are (cool cars)....there you go clownie

[Guest Anonymous]

..

just drive and shutup. thairs more important things in life

then CAR VALUES.[/b][/color]

The message may have been well intended, but reading it in context with the other posts, is like making the first slice into a beautiful wedding cake and finding it filled with bran flakes.

[beast02er]

Muscle car Market is an example of an inflated market,

The European cars won't drop though, there are more and more people with money wanting those cars, and there is never going to be an increasing supply of them, what is out there is out there.... and as the old supply and demand curves show us.......prices will go up.

Beauty and engineering will prevail over BIG and pushrod...

-Bryan

red73

[c.d.iesel]

...... BMW 2002/tii prices VS early 911 T/E/S (1967 - 1973) = whatever .

just drive and enjoy what you have - never mind how much things cost

or what other people pay for something.

I apologize to anyone I offended.

Creighton Demarest

Darien, Connecticut.

Anonymous posters have no right

to express opinions in public.

[Otis]

Meanwhile, back on topic . . .

I'm not going to be popular with my opinion, but here is my take. All the 911's, 912's, 356's etc. I see every weekend are shinning examples of the fine cars Porsche designed and owners cherrish and respect. Even my fellow BMW owners with E9's of the same age as the 2002's follow the Porsche owner's creed keeping their cars very original using correct parts from the correct years. I think that is what car collectors look for and are willing to pay top dollar for vintage german cars in the correct original design. Now look at so many 2002's. So many posts on this board deal with what brakes from what Volvo can I fit on my car? Who has used what seats in their cars? What goofy looking wheel will fit what car? Should I paint my car pearl purple from "Big Daddy Roth" or stick to Camaro orange? Even wood floormats? 3 most important words in vehicle value.....Original, Original, Original! Let the bashing begin! Love you guys!!

I haven't joined the fray -- I've been too busy over in OT telling tall tales about China, and bitching about gas prices. But, now that I've had time to read everything herein, I find the above post very interesting, fascinating, and thought provoking. Here are my thoughts, for whatever they are worth.

I find "value" and fascination in both schools of thought -- original, and modified. IMHO, it takes a special talent to return something to OG. Go look, for example, at Bill Williams' Touring -- an absolutely amazing piece of work. Then again, I am equally enthralled with Paul Cains' 3002 -- imagination, creativity, and engineering genius. Who is to say, which one is better? Or for that matter, why do we have to say?

Personally, I'm somewhat slanted in my views since I spend so much time with the hot rod crowd -- and thus, I am influenced by Big Daddy and Rat Fink, and everything from Rat Rods to million-dollar, chrome-laden trailer queens. I grew up taking apart the 327 engine in the family station wagon (much to my father's surprise and chagrin), and I just love old Chevys. Most of the time, the rides in the hot-rod crowd are so highly modified that they bear little resemblance to the original car from the 30s and 40s. In general, there is a reason for that - performance and safety. I have a 1953 Dodge P/U that I restored to original specs -- and it is one rough riding, slow going, temperamental son-of-a-gun. I would never dream of taking "Douglas" (his name) on the highway -- he and his flathead (and 6-volt system) would probably go into shock if I asked him to go over 40 mph. But, it is fun having one ride that is original. I'm also going the OG route with the Isetta -- more out of fear that Isetta John will cut off my balls if I fail to OG every nut and bolt. On the other hand, I have other projects where I plan to be more "expressive" in my interpretation of what the end product should be (in a word - radical).

Also, those that have seen Otis know that he is not original -- certainly, not with all of that custom stereo work, and all of the suspension and engine mods. I take a lot of shit for that from the purists. But frankly, I don't really care -- I fully anticipate that the question of "value" will only come up when my successors in interest argue over how much to sell him for, after I am six feet under. By that time, of course, I won't care -- since I'll be dead. So for now, I just drive him, and endure (and ignore) any criticisms from the purists who scoff at the thought of three thundering subwoofers (with water-cooled amps) in the trunk. I like Otis, and so does the Sauerkraut band -- and I certainly had fun (and learned a lot) doing the stereo. True, I'll never win any q-tip contests with all of that junk in the trunk, but I could give a rat's ass. And who knows -- Otis's next owner might rip out all the stereo and give him a complete frame up, right down to the last bolt. So be it. In the meantime, give me Otis, my Three Dog Night Greatest Hits CD (cranked to 11), and a good slice of fruitcake, and I'm one happy Otis.

So, what's my point? Simply this -- enjoy your ride. If you like it, that's really all that counts. Let your relatives worry about value, as they money-grub over your grave (as you laugh from above). At least, that's my strategy, and my opinion, for whatever time I have left.

PS -- my brother has both a 71 S and a 356 tub. Both are pristine; q-tip winners every time. He keeps both in those plastic car-bubble things. I don't get it -- but to each his own. Besides, one fine day, when he's not looking, I'm going to pull a Ferris Bueller on him -- on my day off, of course.

[Guest Anonymous]

that is the interesting thing about the internet - people can say what they want and hide behind their keyboards and be anonymous. You need to get a clue and read what I wrote - go BACK AND LOOK AT IT, it had nothing to do really with what you suggest. Actually as so many have written here it has in my opinion created some of the best posts on this website in a long time - all of them except yours CD very thoughtful and articulately written - significantly better than most of that mindless dribble you typically post.

[osbourne]

...... BMW 2002/tii prices VS early 911 T/E/S (1967 - 1973) = whatever .

just drive and enjoy what you have - never mind how much things cost

or what other people pay for something.

I apologize to anyone I offended.

Creighton Demarest

Darien, Connecticut.

Anonymous posters have no right

to express opinions in public.

Apology accepted, and I appreciate your being man enough to offer it.

Now, as to the "just drive & enjoy what you have"; you need to understand that the thread was never about NOT driving and enjoying what you have. It was a discussion about the market forces/intangibles effecting current market values for 02s vs. early Porsche 911s.

Personally, market values have no effect on my driving & enjoyment of my classics (assuming I already own them before the market goes nuts with "stoopid" money). My personal philosophy has always been that the only person my car needs to impress is ME. Since I own them to drive and enjoy, and not as investments, I can just relax and have fun with them. I'll let my heirs worry about market values.

[POP3Y3]

significantly better than most of that mindless dribble you typically post.

in C.D.'s defense, he has helped countless people, myself included,

with his vast knowledge. so he had a patriotic moment. big deal.

[Harv]

Dean and McQueen were cool because they drove Porsche's Not the other way around.

John