1600 questions - I'm very very excited.

[PSloan]

Looked more like turf green to me - am I wrong?

[NickVyse]

I've decided that I will not molest it. It will remain a stock 1600.

excellent choice! Just got back from Christmas shopping on the Cote d'Azur in my bone stock, unmolested 1600-2. Love it. I bought it dirt cheap for my next m2 project, but couldn't bring myself to change a thing, it was just too original.

Mine was made in Oct '67 and is 12 volt. Email your VIN to for it's history. Yours must be older as it's 6 volt.

Looks like you must still have the long neck diff - also looks like someone has messed with the outside rubber boots - these should be clear plastic and the bearings sit in a little bath of oil. Available new from BMW.

Don't change a thing from stock - that's what the later cars are for!

I just bought another - this time a 69, but it's too shagged to be saved and someone had already sold off the interior. Good for a few rare bits though.

[PSloan]

I already emailed MT with the vin - apparently they are out of office until the 7th. Very excited to get the results.

Here's the vin - 1528410

anyone have any info on it? I don't see it on the US vin chart in the faq.

[NickVyse]

I already emailed MT with the vin - apparently they are out of office until the 7th. Very excited to get the results.

Here's the vin - 1528410

anyone have any info on it? I don't see it on the US vin chart in the faq.

If the family get a bit boring over Christmas find out how many 1600's the factory churned out every day and count back from October 1967!

[Delia]

I already emailed MT with the vin - apparently they are out of office until the 7th. Very excited to get the results.

Here's the vin - 1528410

anyone have any info on it? I don't see it on the US vin chart in the faq.

According to Macartney's Guide, it's one of 32,062 units produced between Jan '67 and December '67 (1513244-1545305).

FWIW, it is NOT a USA-spec car. Federal Safety/Emission Regs did not go into effect until 1968.

Delia

[Mike Self]

Until the '68 model year there were no US specific VIN numbers for either 2002s or 1600s.

USA specific 2002 VINs began with 1660001; 1600 VINs began with 1560001.

'66-67 1600s were built for the "world market" and were only differentiated by LHD and RHD, plus what language the gauges spoke and a few small individual country requirements. The 1600 VIN run began with 1500001, so your 1600 is slightly over the 20,000th one built. I've never been able to determine how many 1600s were sold in the US in 1966 and '67, as you can't tell from the VINs like you can from the later, USA only cars. My suspicion is that it's not very many--probably only a few thousand for both years.

I actually don't remember seeing any 1600s in the US in 1966, although about ten years ago I saw a 1600 in LA with a VIN in the 1500xxx range--one of the first thou8sand built. It belonged to the guy that originally founded 2002AD back in the 70s.

IIRC, Scottie Sharp's '67 has a VIN close to yours--in the 152xxxx range; it's also a 6v car.

cheers

mike

[PSloan]

Until the '68 model year there were no US specific VIN numbers for either 2002s or 1600s.

USA specific 2002 VINs began with 1660001; 1600 VINs began with 1560001.

'66-67 1600s were built for the "world market" and were only differentiated by LHD and RHD, plus what language the gauges spoke and a few small individual country requirements. The 1600 VIN run began with 1500001, so your 1600 is slightly over the 20,000th one built. I've never been able to determine how many 1600s were sold in the US in 1966 and '67, as you can't tell from the VINs like you can from the later, USA only cars. My suspicion is that it's not very many--probably only a few thousand for both years.

I actually don't remember seeing any 1600s in the US in 1966, although about ten years ago I saw a 1600 in LA with a VIN in the 1500xxx range--one of the first thou8sand built. It belonged to the guy that originally founded 2002AD back in the 70s.

IIRC, Scottie Sharp's '67 has a VIN close to yours--in the 152xxxx range; it's also a 6v car.

cheers

mike

Great info Mike - As always.

I'm always impressed with the knowlege found on this board. It's a fresh breath of air after spending time on e30 boards.

[florida1600]

12 volt switchover on the 1600 may have happened sometime in fall of 1967, maybe at the same time US cars had VINs beginning with 156XXXX. I think at this time US cars also had "1968" stamped on the VIN plate by either Hoffman Motors or the dealer. Also note that it has the early dash and steering wheel (pre fall 1967) but also has the tall "US style" overriders and license lamps.

You're right to keep it original. 1600s have a different vibe than 2002s.

[AndyS]

WTG, Patrick! I would have made it hurt more but my wife was hovering...

I know where there is a nice 1600 block. If you do decide to part with the wheel, I claim first spot in line! I also know where there is another 67 1600 that may be able to be had, not sure but maybe.

[PSloan]

Thanks andy - lol. You didn't get anywhere close to my max bid though.

[Harv]

Good deal!

JLandreth and I were looking at this one too.

Congrats!

Now keep it stock.

John

[BarryA]

many respects to your 1600, maybe I can provide some input on your questions regarding brakes, diff's, etc..........

1. Long neck diffs & their halfshaft flanges: early cars used u-joints on the inner end of the half shafts, later ones used CV joints. My 69's long neck has flanges that are drilled for both - if you get lucky, you may be able to bolt half-shafts with CV joints on both ends to your existing flanges. If you want a higher geared diff, early '69 2002's had long-necks with 3.64 gears.

2. Driveshafts: some early-early cars had driveshafts with multiple guibos, late-early ones had normal driveshafts with a splined sliding center joint and replaceable u-joints. If you decide to switch to the later style, there are industrial u-joints that are an exact replacement for the NLA BMW units - I can probably dig up the part number if you need it.

3. 5 speed swap: no more difficult than installing a 5 speed in a later car, with two exceptions: you'll need to convert to a later hydraulic clutch pedal box and you'll need to switch to a diaphram style pressure plate, which means having the early 6-bolt flywheel drilled for the later pressure plate bolt pattern. When I did my five speed conversion, I found and modified a second driveshaft and flywheel and put the original parts away.

4. Brakes: no need to convert to dual front brake lines and 4 piston calipers to get bigger brakes for a street car - just swap in '77 320i calipers, vented rotors, m/c and 320 rear drums. Converting to 320 calipers requires a bit of adaptation - turning a bit off the rotor hat and outer rim (Ireland sold me a pair already machined to fit), grinding/sanding a little material off the bottom of the caliper where it comes closest to the rotor hat, and fabricating a bracket to mount the hard line that comes off the back of the caliper. The increase in braking power is significant, and my installation has been trouble free for 5 years.

If I may venture a personal opinion, it would be terrific if you could keep an original, black-plate CA 1600 as close original (at least cosmetically) as is practical to do - no reason not to make modifications that are easily reversible (like upgrading to a 5 speed or 320 brakes or 12 volt electrics), but save all the original bits so the car can be returned to dead-stock at some future point.

20 years or so ago, there were a LOT of 356 Porsche guys crying the blues over their decisions to scrap original parts in the course of upgrading their early cars to "C" disc brakes, late 741 transaxles and 912 engines when the values of original cars started to skyrocket. Not to say '02's will ever reach the absurd values 356 Porsches have attained, but it would be a pity to toss a box or two of parts that were original to your car, then find that you really wish you had 'em a few years later......

[PSloan]

I'm going to do what I can to keep it 100% orig. Frankly, I'm happy for the oppertunity. If I may be honest - the more I got into the turbo project the more I realized the novelty would wear off quickly. I've had stock and modified cars - I liked stock better.

[Mike Self]

cars lower VIN than my very early second series '69, and the two cars have a whole host of differences.

His is one of the last 20 with a longneck diff, U-jointed rear axles, two piston calipers, two speed heater etc, and mine is the 41st built with all the later stuff...Oh those factory running production changes!

mike

[jwcurry]

You might want to talk to fellow FAQ board member, pbryantr.

I sold him an early 1600 along that I purchased off of Ebay. It was sitting in a Kansas wheatfield. He's in the process of restoring it. He's also, I believe....in Texas.

I've had at least 2 of those early steering wheels. People do love them. To me however, they remind me too much of 60's American cars.

I do love the early 1600's, particularly the chrome dash and the position of the hazard lights. Oh, and the console is so cool.

Jerry