I need to vent (LONG!)

[jlandreth]

This has been bothering me for almost 2 monthsI purchased an early 1600-2 that was advertised on the FAQ 11-2-2007. I spoke with the seller several times and asked many questions via e-mail.I sent him a check for $2,875.00 on 12-26 and arranged for shipping from San Jose to Medina OH. The first inkling of trouble came when the shipper called and indicated that when the driver was unable to start the car to move it (probably because the choke cable was wedged behind the dash) he opened the hood and discovered that the radiator and hoses were frozen solid.The seller had assured me that he has poured in nearly a gallon of Zerex before the cars departure.When the car arrived I put it in my garage and turned on the heater to let it thaw then drained the contents whic appeared to be 100% dirty water with lots of sediment. Several hose clamps at the thermostat and heater were simply hanging. The seller shipped the car with only 2 lug nuts per front wheel and claimed he couldn't find the correct through-the -wheel lug nuts.Turns out that the front studs are different than the rears.This is on a car the seller claimed one could drive away.Oh,and the rear wheel cylinders are frozen and the passenger door won't stay closed. .His ad states "the body has very few imperfections". It is pretty obvious that the car was hit in the left rear at some point and poorly repaired( with a big hammer to straighten the outer wheel well, a section of sheet metal,and some Bondo. The ad on his Picassa link states"the body has no dents". The car has dents and dimples on nearly every panel including both doors and the roof.What I received was not the car described in this individuals ad(s) nor is it the car he described in our many e-mails.I have all the e-mails and pictures to support my claims.I could go on and on.Oh, by the way: The driver reported that when he attempted to schedule pick-up of the car,the seller asked him if he could supply an orange crate as a drivers seat! Live and learn!

[Guest Anonymous]

It is shocking that the seller misrepresented the car he was selling and you relied upon his misrepresentation? I guess this is one of the pitfalls of purchasing long distance. (Long distance relationships do not have a particularly great track record either!)

Your recourse: ask for some of your money back. If these misrepresentations were deal breakers, maybe ask to rescind the sale. I doubt that the latter choice is all that practical, but the first is worth a shot. Conversely, maybe you built the disappointment of misrepresentations into the price you paid?

You didn't buy the car from someone in the Bay Area who

[Timmer]

John,

Can definitely understand how you feel. I feel pretty fortunate that the 2000 I bought, sight unseen, was presented by Dan Graves but I'll also never do this again John, that is, buy an auto without checking it out. I remember when Dan posted the car for sale, back in 2002, when it was at Antelope Foreign, Sacramento area. I basically became very interested in it by the digital pictures alone that he took and had been very interested in getting another NK BMW; I had a 1967 1800ti in the late 1980's. Yes, the car did arrive with a cracked cylinder head and it was then I decided while the head was off to rebuild completely, along with a few other mechanical issues; clutch parts and exhaust. It's been a very fun car to drive for almost 7 years now. If you need parts, let me know, I will get with Roy Hopkins, here in town.

Tim

'69 2000

[kris]

I feel for you but caveat emptor when you buy long distance. I bought my 73 Tii from a former FAQ'er who sold it with a "freshly rebuilt motor" which leaked like the Exxon Valdez and now sits on a scrap heap. Nothing was right in the motor - the block was shot, pistons worn, valve guides and bearings worn, etc. The block was damaged and poorly repaired in the front. The bores in the block look very rough and are bored to the biggest oversize available. On the head the valve guides are worn and in one of the rocker arm shafts the plug was missing which would cause a huge loss of oil pressure. Even the manifold gasket was installed the wrong way.

I estimate he took me for about $2500-$3000. He had all kinds of nice pictures of the install of the motor which gave me the warm & fuzzies, but nevertheless, I got screwed.

Like they said on Hill Street Blues, "Be careful out there"

[eastsidebimmer]

I bought my car from a reputable west coast seller, sight unseen, and just like most things in life--I'll only do that once. I have a great car that needed some sorting out when I bought it--plus a few surprises. Nothing electronic will take the place of you poking around, prodding, listening, smelling, touching, and driving (and stopping) in person. If you can afford a car hobby--swing for the roundtrip ticket (before you wire the money) as your insurance that you are buying what you think you are getting. At this point--I don't think there is much you can do about getting any buyers remorse rebates. I do feel your pain, I've been there

Good luck and try to make the best of it,

Ben

[Guest Anonymous]

Let's face it, anybody can be taken, although there is less chance if you do some homework first. A few years ago, I was overseas when a family member happened upon what looked to be a great tii. The seller produced all kinds of documentation that suggested a blueprinted handbuilt engine. The seller had receipts in the 1000's for the work by what appeared to be a reputable builder. The seller said he wanted to sell the car because he didnt think it practical for his pregnant wife to drive. Family member told me that she thought she saw bleu smoke at startup. I told her have it checked out by a mechanic. It turned out that by sheer bad luck she took the car to the very same mechanic who charged $4200 to rebuild the engine. He pooh poohed the smoke as normal piston ring's that hadn't been broken in. Knowing he had a live one, he waived his fee and said bring the car back to me after you buy it and we will sort things out.

Over my objections, the car was purchased. The engine smoke got worse, the mechanic claimed the engine had been abused in the 1400 miles since the rebuild and suit was filed. Mechanic disappeared and I inherited the car. I tore the engine down and discovered that the cylinder walls were not even honed. Sometimes you get what you pay for and less! Fortunately, someone else fell in love with the car and paid almost what cousin paid so the loss was not as bad as it could have been.

[_z_]

that sucks.

whenever I hear one of these stories (not many thankfully) it kind of reflects badly on this site. Like any 2002er is automatically trustworthy and cool in my book since they have shown the good sense to own one of these cars.

Sadly thats not always true (still amost always true though)

Sorry if the FAQ facilitated a bad transaction.. there is just no way to really know unless you see it in the flesh I guess.

sorry man

-z

[dubois]

it seems that someone could have, or should have checked this car for you in SJ. There are quite a few regulars FAQers in SJ and sorroundings. Shouldn't the pictures have shown the 2 lug nuts?

I know these comments don't help you, but maybe the next guy...

[Harv]

it seems that someone could have, or should have checked this car for you in SJ. There are quite a few regulars FAQers in SJ and sorroundings..

UG.

I looked at it for John. At night.

What he was looking for and what I was looking for were different things. What I saw was an incomplete good base for a COMPLETE restoration on a VERY early VIN 1600.

I think what John saw from the pictures form the site and from the description was a lot nicer car. After the car got to Ohio it was obvious the car was just not as it seamed. I assumed there would have been some reassembly before shipping. I saw the car on jack stands so I wasn't counting lug nuts and the like.

The seller is a likable fellow but I think there should have been some sort of re-negotiating. And even though the seller thinks so. I'M NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS.

John

[norm]

Is this it?

http://picasaweb.google.com/scottiesharpe/19671600

I'm now afraid to sell something on the forum.

"Norm sold me a rare case of beer and there was a bottle missing?"

I said bear, not beer!!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4782339494089160461&q=rare+beer&total=1847&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=6

Norm

[jlandreth]

Norm-Yes,that's the car. I feel bad for Harv.He's a good friend

[dubois]

Is this it?

http://picasaweb.google.com/scottiesharpe/19671600

I'm now afraid to sell something on the forum.

"Norm sold me a rare case of beer and there was a bottle missing?"

I said bear, not beer!!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4782339494089160461&q=rare+beer&total=1847&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=6

Norm

yeap, I would be afraid to look at cars for others too! The missing bottle? oops! I drank it!

[jlandreth]

I need to accept the fact that I made a mistake.I'll see the project through. All my prior dealings with FAQer's and vendors have been very positive. I can't even count the number of folks that have helped me out.

[jerry]

I need to accept the fact that I made a mistake.I'll see the project through. .

don't feel bad. although i think you paid a fair bit of money for this particular car, i know the feeling. if it's an early VIN and rust is not too bad, you will have a nice car when finished. i bought a rust-bucket 73tii early on, during my re-acquaintance with these cars a couple years ago because i was enamored with the looks of the engine. i wish i could undo that purchase but we just have to move on.

i also suffer from wearing rose-colored glasses and typically see what is possible versus what is.... not necessarily profitable, but very satisfying when a project is completed.

[tsteph12]

But seriously, Scottie and I exchanged a few emails and phone calls regarding this 1600. He definately played up on the positives, but neglected to point out any of the negatives you describe. His communications had a bit of a used-car salesman feel and my gut feeling told me to pass. Sorry for your troubles.

Best,

T.R.

'72 polaris 2000tii touring

'72 inka 2002