Motor build thread

[MrNvgtr]

I won't even ask because I'm sure its been discussed, but I'm not usually successful with the search function on this forum.

Does anyone have a good link that discusses in detail the build of a really high compression (non-FI) M10, the level of horsepower achievable, and a plus being the costs involved?

I'm considering this in the near future and I'm trying to figure out what kind of money I need to raise and whether or not I could have a shop do it or if I'll have to do it and maybe sacrifice some quality and hp in the process. Thanks.

[Turb02]

From my experience searching and getting parts and price lists together for my turbo build, I would say that the parts will run you around 2500, more if you need the carbs to match. I say this because there are only a few different parts that you would need over a FI engine (304-316 cam, titanium retainers, billet rocker arms or some variant for strength, etc...)

Getting the machine work done will vary in price but I have heard prices from 250-600 for the head work and 300-750 for block work. Depends on where you go and how much machining needs to be done.

Having someone put it together should be a little cheaper than the machine work but probably not much.

Add that up and you could possibly be better off buying a MM engine that is assembled with a warranty.

As for a link try www.metricmechanic.com

search around and you will find what you are looking for

my.02 cents

[MrNvgtr]

Cool, the MM price list gives me a ballpark figure for what I'm thinking which would be around $10k installed. Ouch. Can all of that be done by a first timer like me? I've never done an engine build but if there was a process to follow I could probably build a jet engine, ya know.

[meyekel]

Michael,

You're thinking of rebuilding the engine already? Try it out first before you seek more HP. You need to find out what class you are going to be racing in first and that will dictate how to build an engine and to what specs. I would caution you building a super hi-comp/338 cam engine only to get smoked by newer cars.

FYI, I rebuilt my engine with 9.5:1 and a 292 and it cost me about 3 grand in parts and machine work.

[MrNvgtr]

Michael,

You're thinking of rebuilding the engine already? Try it out first before you seek more HP. You need to find out what class you are going to be racing in first and that will dictate how to build an engine and to what specs. I would caution you building a super hi-comp/338 cam engine only to get smoked by newer cars.

FYI, I rebuilt my engine with 9.5:1 and a 292 and it cost me about 3 grand in parts and machine work.

Yeah, I'm looking at my options with an open mind right now and it looks like the best idea for my 2002 plans is to send it to Matt McGinn to install the pig cheek flares and then do partial motor work in the form of modifying the subframe to go dry sump and set the motor vertical, but then leave it as is for a few more seasons and then do the big blow-out build later for 200+ hp. Its already got some type of cam and who knows what else to go with the twin Weber 40's, so its not a slow engine. It just needs a proper tune I think.

To keep my sanity, I think I'm giving up on the racing plans for now. I'm really going insane after 3+ years of owning a 2002 and not driving it. I'm just going to turn it into a street rod 2002, ala Matt's other big cheek flared '02.

To do this, I'm going to be selling my M Coupe and get a nice e30 to get me by.

[BLUNT]

michael, talk to eric kerman. i think he can do better for you

im really pleased with mine

[visionaut]

Hi Micheal,

I'm kinda with meyekel. Give what you've already got a better shot yet. Sounds like you're cammed and dual sidedrafted already - that should be a nice powerful combo 'as-is'. (I'm assuming that's paired up with some good compression, and a good exhaust.) What have you got for distributor/ignition system - if it's still points, get a PerTronix. You should definitely be running a full mechanical dizzy as well. MSD or Crane would also be a good addition.

Your motors in nice shape still, ain't it? - take it to Bimmerhaus for a tune. Ask for Mark to work his magic on the DCOE carbs/timing. What choke size are you running? If the car came from the flatlands to altitude, you can definitely use some adjustments.

Determine your cam, pistons/compression, ignition components, carb set-up. The additions or just servicing I mentioned is not a lot of cost, and it can turn a shrinking-violet into a "Rose". ;-)

I'm not sure a rebuild is needed right away, unless your motor's sour. I'm seen quite a few pics of your green-monster - it actually doesn't seem far from streetable. What do you think is needed to get it to pass CO inspection? (BTW - I LOVE the custom pig-cheeks you had McGinn fab for you.)

Tom

ps: I had my motor rebuild done by DaveS, and tuned by Mark at BH in Fall 06 and I'm still grinnin'. See my site for a build/mod list - and contact me via RollCall for some costs - parts from IE, labor from BH if the motor build is needed fo' sho.

[MrNvgtr]

I think I need to come back down to earth for a moment. I've had a lot on my mind with an upcoming move lately. I'm moving to Montana next fall and because there's no road course venues anywhere nearby, I'm trying to think of how I'm going to get by for the next 4 to 5 years. I think I'm on the right track with selling the M Coupe and putting the money into the 2002, but I agree with you guys about my engine. I probably can just get the flares done, modify the subframe, get the motor set vertically and dry-sump'd, wide wheels/tires, tune, and pass an emissions test and be a really happy camper. I don't want to go into the quotes I've received from Matt, but that's definitely do-able. It was trying to redo the whole motor that was going to take things "Over the Top" (I'm watching that at work right now, haha). This whole debacle with my 2002 over the last few years has really screwed me up. I was fine and dandy with the M Coupe and was going to be happy with it for the rest of my life. I think I like the 2002 so much, and somewhat more than the M Coupe, that all the bad luck I've had with funding and mechanical inability on my part have really thrown my mind out of whack. Thanks for reigning me back.

BTW, just as a background on my 2002. I bought it from a consignor in NJ, who bought it from an auction, who took it off the hands of a NJBMWCCA guy named Ferd Simoas who hasn't been very helpful with telling me all he had done to the car including the engine. I can only guess its got a nice cam due to a sticker under the hood and the cool sound it makes at idle. It may have special pistons but that would be a total guess. Then its got some interesting twin side-draft Weber 40 DCOEs. Besides the mysterious motor, the rest of the car is set up really nice - solid mounts for everything, nice partial interior, cleanest recaros I've ever seen, roll cage, rear seat delete, etc.

[meyekel]

Hey Michael,

I am not trying to steer you away from your dream, but, Tom is on the right track for sure. You already have a race prepped car. What you should focus on is how to get it street legal if that is your goal. I would check into the laws on 1. a full roll cage, 2. a fuel cell, 3. emissions, 4. lack of interior/race seats. What about insuring it for the road too? Check into your insurance company's policy on that.

In addition to all of this, is it worth the time and funds to turn it into a street car? For example, if you need to take out the roll cage and fuel cell, can you get it back in with no adverse structural damage if you want a track car again?

I still don't get the dry sump/vertical engine for a street car either aside from looking cool and wasting money IMO. Are you worried about oil starvation on the highway or in the mountains? If you go vertical with the engine you will need to fab a custom intake manifold as well as modding the frame. And be careful of visual inspection/emission requirements too for getting it street legal.

I understand getting itchy to actually drive the car but it is a purpose built track car meant for a track. If you want a street car you should get a street car with amenities like heat, a 5 speed etc. Tom's car sounds like great middle ground between having fun on the road and more than capable of driving events too. Again, not to rain on your parade, it's your dream but it seems like you are moving backwards.

[MrNvgtr]

Good points and I agree. In my last post I made the point I was backing off the whole rebuilding the motor thing and just setting it up for a future build by at least doing the dry sump and setting the motor down and back by modifying the subframe. I know that sounds crazy, but Matt said he already knew how to do that, so while I'm having the flares that I already own welded in place, I could just go ahead and do the other thing with the motor. That's not a motor rebuild, just a repositioning. Plus, yeah, I think its cool too, and I think its ok to be a little cool and crazy with it if its going to be a fun car for the street. I'm saving huge buck-aroos just doing that compared to the whole engine thing.

I don't think transitioning it to street legal will be too bad. It doesn't have a fuel cell or even a stripped interior. Its just missing the rear seat. Its got pretty much everything except heater and A/C and I don't care because this is my summer/fun car. The '76 model smog stuff might be the biggest hurdle. You're right though. Before any big decisions are made, I need to study the Montana DOT rules, if not US DOT rules also.

I know, I've been going backwards since day one with this whole 2002 thing. I was a sane Bimmer guy before I bought Brent's 2002 back in '04. I just call it a series of back luck and then an unlucky Air Force move to Montana.

[jerry]

I've never done an engine build but if there was a process to follow I could probably build a jet engine, ya know.

i'm around people who rebuild jet engines all day and i know better than to even TRY to get involved in that process. the smaller the engine, the more critical the tolerances. for example the little 340HP helicopter engines spin at 51,000RPM with tip clearances of 0.008-0.012inch. the amount of measuring, balancing and aligning involved is mind-boggling. the larger engines are much more forgiving, btw.

sorry, WOT, my bad.

[MrNvgtr]

Correct. My comment was a slight exaggeration. I sat through a class on the mechanics of jet engines before learning to fly. Really cool stuff.