Parts Prices Feedback and Poll

[bmw_jeff]

Hi Max,

I agree with all the stuff above, again especially the seals. Door seals for a Ford car (granted they *may* be cheaper quality) are like $30, and they are larger than an 02's. Why is BMW wanting and arm and a leg for rubber parts?

The issue with dealers now, and I say now because 3-5 years ago this was not an issue, is that they all want to charge a markup ON TOP OF RETAIL prices set by BMWNA. All the dealers near me (4) used to charge list price, minus a discount for BMWCCA (10-20%). Now they all mark up the parts 25%+ for most stuff, or 200-500% for bolts/nuts/small parts, then pretend they are doing us a favor with a BMWCCA 10% discount. Even with the "discount" we are paying over retail price! This is for all parts, not just MT stuff. A few months ago I went to the dealer and bought some parts including nuts and washers and when I checked out I realized they were charging me several dollars PER bolt and like .50 per washer. These things list for .05 - 1.00 each, but in their system they marked them wayyyy up. I complained to the parts manager and he said they marked up all the small parts to pay for their "handling" by staff. BS, they were handled the same way in 2004 for zero markup. I returned them for a refund right there and went to the hardware store to find some instead. Its not so much the cost but the principal of the markup. BMW needs to reign in dealership parts departments'.

It's gotten so bad people I know who own BMW's newer cars after warranty are getting rid of them after the first repair quote from a BMW dealer. One late-model example of BMW itself gouging us is E46 M3 waterpumps, which recently *doubled* in price for no reason to about $400!!! For a waterpump, please, should this be 4X more than a normal E46 pump? All this craziness seemed to coincide with the dealer's remodeling their dealerships and showrooms/service bays. They are now screwing the parts consumer to pay for their upgrades. Were these required upgrades by BMW to retain their licenses? Who knows, they all seemed to happend around the same time period so I'm thinking they were prodded by BMWNA. Thanks for looking out for us Max, I'm sure you will get alot of ammo from this thread.

[Marty]

I agree with all the above BMW does the best job of any car company I've ever heard of supporting the older cars, other car groups are dumbfounded when the hear the factory is still making parts for 35+ year old cars and looking to make more as they are needed.

I think the one thing that hasn't been discussed here is the quite obvious fact that Mobil Traditions at this point should be providing any original owner of a 1600/2002 with parts at no charge as a reward for our loyalty, less face it no one but a total nut would drive the same car for 35 years.

[oz_tom]

Max,

Is there some way you can bring up the situation over here in Australia too? Its very similar to Canada. BMW Dealers dont go by the same pricing structure which puts door seals and other basics WELL above US prices, hence why people are now buying aftermarket and from US sources such as yourself and BLUNT.

Is there anything that can really be done or is this simply outside of MT's boundaries?

Tom

[PatAllen]

With due respect, I dont think whatever Max will do will have an impact on our poor cannucks or you aussies.

I sincerely applaud for all effort beign put on the community, and understand it is meant for the MT, but i am hopeless, that wont help when i will buy parts for my E30 or E36, nor my 02, because i think, and anyone is welcome to correct me, the canadian BMW is totaly independant, and they dont make the difference in between the nature of the car mentioned...

The persons at the part desk are so simple mind, their brains have been partialy shuted off at one moment or one other, so right from the start, this situation comes from very far...imagine if you have to expain them that they are allowed to work out the price whenever they feel it is needed...when will they do ??? NEVER !! because

1-you annoy them when you come at their desk

2-they dont understand what is the nature of your request... a guipo ??

3-they dont even drive a BMW nor do they know even 1% of the BMW history. They rather love their civic or sunfire with a race sticker.

Why should anyone push on buttons to request respect from MT only while the exact same situation exist "overall" ?

And the only issue has been thrown like a joke from someone who works for BMW...suck for a job at your local dealer and then you will have a "rebate"...pheuwww !! that stinks...the bigger the company gets, the worst it stinks.

Sorry if i abuse the bandwidth, i am severly affected with my last experience, especialy when i think at the smile i got when she told me the price of that stupid M8x6 bolt...total absence of logic and respect.

[lynxrat]

I agree with Emyers, the cost of the rubber mounting is very high at $50.

I agree more with Pat Allen that the Canadian prices constitute little more that "permission to rape"

I.E.

Max's price:

02 RUBBER MOUNTING 2 23711176041 $22.86

BMW Canada price (Bema Motors Saskatoon)was/is:

02 RUBBER MOUNTING 2 23711176041 $175.00

I resorted to the old favorite Autopartsonlinecanada and got it for $45 CDN.

Thanks for the vent!

Kevin

[Pigpen]

Hi Max

Great post and I appreciate the great service you gave me as a first time buyer a couple of months ago. Have you seen the prices of clean dashes on Ebay over the last year? I am almost ready to start making them!

I went into Bmw of San Diego to buy the Mobile Traditions Catalog, I even had the part number, and they couldn't find it on the computer! I walked out shaking my head and have never been back. I won't even start a rant about the lousy service on my wife's 06 X5. Let them build all the big fancy dealerships and hand out all the botteled water in the world, my next NEW car will be Japanese.

Thanks, Mark

[Pigpen]

Hi Max

Great post and I appreciate the great service you gave me as a first time buyer a couple of months ago. Have you seen the prices of clean dashes on Ebay over the last year? I am almost ready to start making them!

I went into Bmw of San Diego to buy the Mobile Traditions Catalog, I even had the part number, and they couldn't find it on the computer! I walked out shaking my head and have never been back. I won't even start a rant about the lousy service on my wife's 06 X5. Let them build all the big fancy dealerships and hand out all the botteled water in the world, my next NEW car will be Japanese.

Thanks, Mark

[Velocewest]

Meh. Price parts for an e9... If you can find them. I can buy a complete 02 for the price of an e9 quarter panel.

[Armond]

Max, this is a "risky" post but I really appreciate you bringing this up. In addition to what others suggested, Dashboards would be a great part to become available again at decent price. Tii parts,such as throttle bodies,injection parts are also a concern. Hopefully, our voices will be heard at MT. Thanks for your efforts.

[02Nut]

This is real long shot .... how about BMW licensing 3rd parties to manufacture old part designs?

I understand GM licenses 3rd parties to manufacture or reproduce parts for "enthusiast" cars. A few years back, I was visiting a Die Cast tooling shop in Milwaukee and noticed they were repairing a tool for '55-57 Chevy trim. It turned out the tool shop had a customer who was licensed to die cast certain '55-57 parts for GM.

Just a thought....

[Maximillian]

We already crossed that bridge about licensing 3rd parties to remanufacture parts back in 1994 when MT was set up. The BMW board decision was no way for fear of losing quality control, etc....

Good idea though.

Max

Maximillian Importing Company

www.bmwmobiletradition-online.com

[boltnbrew]

Agreed with Velocewest on E9 prices- out of control!

But since this is a 2002 board, what about dashboard reproductions? They rot/split/sit in the sun all day.

Belt line trim- available but not reasonable give what it is.

Kugelfisher pumps?

[Kidasters]

Hey Max - thanks for asking! That is appreciated greatly.

Have MT lean on VDO to make round washer bottles again.

Or - have MT at least make the lid for the square bottle:

p/n 61668645126

Wiring harness - front

P/N 61111352915 - $543

wiring harness - rear

p/n 61111352954 - NLA

Our cars are old - they need new wires.

Later,

Ken

[Delia]

Max,

I've been reading this thread and agree with many of the thoughtful comments by faq members.

Certainly, Mobile Tradition has the right marketing strategy -- embrace the older models to enhance current market share as a self-liquidating Public Relations and Sales Tool.

Every time a 2002, CS Coupe, Bavaria goes down the road, each little blue and white roundel is a tiny a advertisement for a new 1, 3, 5, 7, etc.

Good job, BMW Sales and Marketing Team!

And I really have to say, building an Inka Orange 2002tii in a glass conservatory, then using it to promote Mobile Tradition's parts inventory and commitment to older models on its website, flying it all over the world, sharing it with Motor Journalists from the major auto mags like Motor Trend, etc. is pure genius...

...meanwhile...

Down here in the trenches, the busted-knuckle gang members are scratching their collective heads (and elsewhere, though inappropriately sometimes) at the cost of rubber seals and trim fasteners.

Maybe the wholesale price of inventory for bolts-plus-rubber-plus-shipping-plus-administrative costs (plus, plus, plus) is not deemed to be quantifiable within the framework of "car cultists" -plus-BMW Sales/Marketing/PR vs German bean counters.

But...I tend to identify with the busted-knuckle gang. and I tend to question such unusually high prices the way I question The Pentagon spending tax dollars on $436. hammers, $640. toilet seats and $560B wars in the Mideast.

Unless it's perceived as some kind of therapy to keep out of the bars and strip clubs drinking to all hours of the night, (possibly you remember me, I was the one dancing around on that pole) I think when one begins a restoration or even a "conservation" of an old car, it's a good idea to do a spreadsheet of related costs, particularly rubber and brightwork.

Of course, having recently done this for a project (not mine), I could see the numbers tallying quite high in very short order. I'd have to swallow hard before again taking such a plunge. (I did this back in the mid 80s, and don't see how to afford another mis-adventure of that magnitude, but I digress.)

In my opinion, a simple way for Mobile Tradition to gain insight and get some perspective on us busted-knucklers is again through a spreadsheet. List every part number necessary to build an 02, correlate it to their current price list, then hit add...I'll bet that number will put the fear of God into someone's college/trust/retirement fund!

At some point along the way, you''ll have to do a bit of research on the NLA bits. See if there is enough demand for full production (or a limited run). Kinda like a "group buy" here on the board. Who here would put money up front to BMW for new dash? Priced anything from "Just Dashes" lately??? Got 6-8 months to wait?

Nine dollar bolts are outrageous! Why can't hardware be sourced from US manufacturers? Even critical tolerances can be sourced domestically without the annoyances of having Germans put little parts in bags with BMW part numbers on them. (I wouldn't be surprised if some of these parts were manufactured here in the US or worse yet, sourced from China.)

These are among many thoughts I have about Mobile Tradition. And aside from the need for there being a West Coast distribution center, as I've mentioned to you previously, there are hundreds more where those ideas and of course, opinions, came from.

PS. I'm available as a consultant/independent contractor with Indy Race League, IMSA, SCCA ProRally experience.

Cheers!

Delia

[TobyB]

How about the availability of decent piston set ??

Seconded.

And cost and availability.

Unlike in Germany, I can pick up a pretty nice, shiny, runs and drives

2002 for $2500- $4000 around here any day of the week.

It'll need a few things, depending on the PO, but it'll be a complete, mostly- functional

car.

At that price, I can't spend $285 on a fan motor, $6-800 on door seals,

etc, etc, etc and have it make financial sense. The cars aren't worth

that much- yet...

I hope that this might help you explain to MT why pricing's an issue for us...

thanks, Max!

Toby