So I thought I was smog exempt...

[Harv]

illegal search....

Nope.

He agreed to the search (the look under the hood). If the cop had asked and he said no, and then the cop opened the hood, that would have been an illegal search.

John

[Guest Anonymous]

as has already been stated, just because your car is smog exempt, does not mean that may remove all the smog equipment on your car. by law not only must it be intact as it left the factory, but it must be operating. . . . as for the nuances of law . . . .

I don't think you can avoid roadside sampling any more than you can completely avoid sobriety checkpoints. When I visited your state I had two pull overs asking to look at the car. It turned out, in both cases, the constables were curious about the car and wanted to know about horsepower, gas mileage and parts availability. They seemed genuinely interested, but it could have been a subterfuge, who really knows? Common sense suggests not all situations are the same and it rarely helps if you tell the detaining officer to grow a sack or words to that effect.

[Colin]

as has already been stated, just because your car is smog exempt, does not mean that may remove all the smog equipment on your car. by law not only must it be intact as it left the factory, but it must be operating. . . . as for the nuances of law . . . .

I don't think you can avoid roadside sampling any more than you can completely avoid sobriety checkpoints. When I visited your state I had two pull overs asking to look at the car. It turned out, in both cases, the constables were curious about the car and wanted to know about horsepower, gas mileage and parts availability. They seemed genuinely interested, but it could have been a subterfuge, who really knows? Common sense suggests not all situations are the same and it rarely helps if you tell the detaining officer to grow a sack or words to that effect.

My experience with law enforcement has taught me that it is best to always assume the worst, and I come from a family of cops!

If a cop wants to chat you up about your car, its best to keep mum or play dumb.

[scestes]

Is anyone that does a motor swap without impossibly/ridiculously attempting to keep smog equipment breaking CA law? Obviously, a newer motor or fuel injection would help burn cleaner, so I'm curious how CA law handles that.

I have done this before with my old Honda. The rules are actually pretty favorable if you do it. Back when I upgraded my Honda so long as I kept all of the equipment for the engines smog system and incorporated it into my car, I was ok. Everything had to work and function though. Additionally, instead of going to pay for a smog cert, I scheduled an appointment with the state referee board at no cost. I'm sure the rules have changed since I did my engine upgrade (back in the early 90's). The referee board was hit and miss. The staff was either up on how things worked, or the dimmest light bulb to ever be lit.

Weren't sidedrafts, headers and oil coolers factory and/or dealer installed options back when our cars were new........wink wink

In my world they are now! I'm going to claim it was an Alpina.

After having a few days to reflect on the situation I've come to the following conclusion. I'm driving an old car and quite honestly, the DMV does everything in it's power to try and get me to crush it every year. I get multiple notices saying they'll give me a whole $800 to turn it into them so that they can crush it. I'm fairly certain that this mentality has been passed down to law enforcement officials. There was nothing that should have brought my car to the officers attention other than it's Golf Yellow. It's not incredibly loud (has stock exhaust besides the header), and it's not like I have huge race numbers on the side of the car. The thing that was against me most I'm sure is that my car is Golf Yellow, and it's an old unique looking car.

As for the fix-it ticket. I have no idea how the laws are supposed to be applied, but I've been in this exact situation twice before. Paid for my tags, they didn't show up before registration expired, the car has it's registration paid for, the tags are just somewhere in the mail or system. Once I got my tags the last two times, I took the ticket and the car to the Police department, found some cop in the parking lot, had him sign the ticket, and then I mailed the ticket in. No fine, no charge, no judge, no court. Probably not the way it's supposed to work according to the law, but I think it's one of those things that so long as you play along and go through the tedious motions, they don't care so long as the end result they're looking for happens.

I've been driving my 2002 a lot lately because so long as I'm driving around nice and casual, its better on gas than my E38. Additionally, my E38 needs new brakes all the way around, and I'm trying to decided what I want to put on it. Driving the 02 regularly has really been pretty enjoyable too. I quite honestly did think that smog exempt meant that the car wasn't required to meet any smog rules other than it could not be a gross polluter. When you think about it though, quite honestly, exactly how much smog equipment came stock on a '71....

[Guest Anonymous]

Pretty interesting comments about cops..

It seems to me that if you live in a town where a Police Officer has the time to ask you about your smog equipment during a traffic stop (which happens to be one of the most hazardous calls in Police work) you live in a pretty safe town..

Hopefully after she stopped you , you THANKED her for serving and protecting..

Because when the stuff hits the fan the civilians will run backwards away from the threat, and the Men and Women of Law Enforcement will run into the fight.Keep it real. For better or worse we need the Police..Don't judge them until you have gone on a few calls with them..

As far as smog equipment goes we are exempt (equipment should be in place and functional) HOWEVER, MOST of us have modified/altered our vehicles, hopefully knowing that if we are caught there will be some answering to do. That's part of the game we play. Sometimes we win sometimes we lose.

MOST times a cop is not even concerned about that stuff. If you would have had the proper tags she would not have pulled you over. Do as much self help as possible to eliminate a traffic enforcement stop:

ie proper tags, no loud muffler, two license plates, all lights working, no cracks in the windshield, (in California) don't place tint on front windows, don't have anything hanging from the rear view mirror, wear your seat belt, don't talk on the phone,don't smoke weed while drinking( the smell trails the car).

The items above are some of the things that a Police Officer can notice quickly. I'm not telling you how to beat law enforcement what I am offering you is a way to avoid the law enforcement experience.

Also, if you should happen to get pulled over by an Officer have all of your supporting documents in one place and current..The more prepared you are the more credibility you have (not etched in stone). Don't reach for anything , just wait for the officers request. If you are upset that the officer stopped you , no problem that's human (but remain calm) so that you do not end up in the rear of his or her vehicle, pending further investigation...

A traffic stop more times then and whether people want to admit it or not is the driver's fault. A Police Officer is only reacting on the information or act that they have witnessed or suspect. At that point they investigate by doing a consensual contact (where a reasonable person feels free to leave or not open there hood , and is not obligated to do so, but the officer can ask),

or a detention (where a person is not free to leave, ie traffic stop) or an arrest which is self explanatory.

When a police Officer stops you for whatever reason they can the spirit of the law (suggestions about your smog equipment) or letter of the law (ticket for expired reg) and by the way 4000(a) V.C. is the ticket you will get for expired reg..You can call it whatever you'd like but "expired reg" will be the phrase used on your citation.

So in closing when you go to the dough nut shop to have that citation signed off by an Officer of the law, offer to by him a dough nut, after he does you the favor of signing off that citation.

Police Officers donot know all of the laws (i agree with one of the listers) BUT believe you me, if you give them the reason during your traffic stop, TO LOOK INTO THEIR DUTY BAG AND DIG OUT the code books that they carry, you would be absolutely amazed at the facts they find and how long your citation could get..

SO you folks that have submitted your well thought out points of fact(without the burden of fearing for your life, and in the comforts of your home) good job you are well read on the few regs that you have looked up.Anyone can challenge anything in court, it does not mean you will win. Yep, and when you arrive in court don't be scared and don't lie because the judge will pick up on that easily as the Police Officer calmly states the fact of the date in question.

WHATEVER......just enjoy the ride

Just my fifty cents

ira

still driving my 74 02' Tii Fjord & 71 02' 5spd Granada, 38/38

[BarryA]

major, long term crack-down on street racing - the primary tool they're using is vehicle-code enforcement (primarily emissions violations related) and investigating suspected use of stolen parts. In this area (Sacramento) there have been a couple of well-publicized examples of cars running non-emissions legal performance parts that were siezed, impounded, found to have stolen parts installed, and crushed.

As Michael said, so far it's been largely targeted at the hot-rod asian guys, which as been pretty easy because of the numbers of Hondas that have had V-Tec Acura engines (some of which were stripped from stolen cars) swapped in without going through the proper emissions verfications, but they're also going after suspected street racers in general. The result is that anything that's obviously non-smog legal on anything built after the mid 60's is fair game - guys with blowers and dual 4 bbls sticking out of the hoods of their Camaros are as obvious a target as slammed Civics with huge intercoolers and loud exhausts.

Best defense is probably to not give the gendarmes any reason to pull you over for an equipment violation - keep your registration (and insurance) current, make sure all your lights work, don't make too much noise, and keep ALL the reciepts for anything that goes on the car.

[f1reverb]

Pretty interesting comments about cops..

It seems to me that if you live in a town where a Police Officer has the time to ask you about your smog equipment during a traffic stop (which happens to be one of the most hazardous calls in Police work) you live in a pretty safe town..

ME: "The most hazardous thing to police officers is traffic accidents they are involved in."

Hopefully after she stopped you , you THANKED her for serving and protecting..

ME:"Funny, I've had a motorcycle officer thank me for being the nicest person he ever pulled over just being my normal self."

Because when the stuff hits the fan the civilians will run backwards away from the threat, and the Men and Women of Law Enforcement will run into the fight.Keep it real. For better or worse we need the Police..Don't judge them until you have gone on a few calls with them..

ME:"Just as many civilians will run into the threat as police when they are legally armed as the police are. Perhaps you noticed the police running backwards away from many threats during the 1992 L.A. riots. The police protected themselves first letting the riot get out of control. The National Guard were deployed with no ammunition too. In the North Hollywood shootout the police had to go to a civilian gun store and borrow rifles to be properly armed to deal with the threat. Police serve a societal function but they are not above nor below civilians in guts or skill with a firearm."

ME:"I have gone on plenty of ride-alongs with various departments. One has to keep a watchful eye on the police as a collective entity. Of course there are many fine individual cops, but one can still judge the actions of police. In San Diego in the late '80s (can't find the date) an SDPD car with a ride-along on board stopped and harassed a black engineer walking down the street and then assaulted him for no reason, and the engineer defended himself, got one of the officer's weapons, shot and killed both the cops and wounded the ride-along. The engineer was acquitted at his trial as he was defending himself. The police often decide someone is guilty of something and if they dig long and hard enough they'll find evidence of a crime because they know criminals. The problem is they end up treating everyone as a criminal. When crimes happen civilians are normally the first responders and the police follow-up on reports of crime. The police are under no legal obligation to protect any individual anywhere."

As far as smog equipment ggoes we are exempt (equipment should be in place and functional) HOWEVER, MOST of us have modified/altered our vehicles, hopefully knowing that if we are caught there will be some answering to do. That's part of the game we play. Sometimes we win sometimes we lose.

ME:"No, as far as smog equipment goes we are not exempt."

MOST times a cop is not even concerned about that stuff. If you would have had the proper tags she would not have pulled you over. Do as much self help as possible to eliminate a traffic enforcement stop:

ME:"And most traffic stops result in fishing expeditions by the police. The police should know that just because the tags might look expired there are plenty of reasons that the situation can be completely legal, although that is for a court to decide normally as a citiation is an allegation of a violation (an assertion made without proof)."

ie proper tags (ME:"and what an officer thinks is improper can be perfectly proper"), no loud muffler (ME:"and what an officer thinks is too loud can be determined to be within the law"), two license plates (ME:"only if the law requires two plates"), all lights working, no cracks in the windshield, (in California) don't place tint on front windows (ME:"plenty of cars violate this with impunity"), don't have anything hanging from the rear view mirror, wear your seat belt, don't talk on the phone (ME:"if you do this legally you can talk on the phone all day long"), don't smoke weed while drinking( the smell trails the car).

The items above are some of the things that a Police Officer can notice quickly. I'm not telling you how to beat law enforcement what I am offering you is a way to avoid the law enforcement experience.

ME:"And the reason you can get pulled over can also be that the officer doesn't think you are the type of person who should be driving the type of car you are driving. I was pulled over when I was 20 driving my newly purchased Porsche and that's exactly what the cop told me."

Also, if you should happen to get pulled over by an Officer have all of your supporting documents in one place and current..The more prepared you are the more credibility you have (not etched in stone). Don't reach for anything , just wait for the officers request. If you are upset that the officer stopped you , no problem that's human (but remain calm) so that you do not end up in the rear of his or her vehicle, pending further investigation...

A traffic stop more times then and whether people want to admit it or not is the driver's fault. A Police Officer is only reacting on the information or act that they have witnessed or suspect. At that point they investigate by doing a consensual contact (where a reasonable person feels free to leave or not open there hood , and is not obligated to do so, but the officer can ask),

or a detention (where a person is not free to leave, ie traffic stop) or an arrest which is self explanatory.

ME:"The key word above is "suspect" which is the start of a fishing expedition."

When a police Officer stops you for whatever reason they can the spirit of the law (suggestions about your smog equipment) or letter of the law (ticket for expired reg) and by the way 4000(a) V.C. is the ticket you will get for expired reg..You can call it whatever you'd like but "expired reg" will be the phrase used on your citation.

ME:"No, the police write on the 4000a ticket "expired tags" and they could put a happy face on the ticket for all those words are worth. The box with the vehicle code you violated is what you are allegedly ticketed for, nothing else. 4000a says you didn't pay the fees, not that you have expired tags which are completely legal in many cases."

So in closing when you go to the dough nut shop to have that citation signed off by an Officer of the law, offer to by him a dough nut, after he does you the favor of signing off that citation.

ME:"And if you were never guilty of anything in the first place an officer cannot sign off on your lack of guilt. A court trip is required when you have done nothing wrong and want your bail returned and your citation dismissed."

Police Officers donot know all of the laws (i agree with one of the listers) BUT believe you me, if you give them the reason during your traffic stop, TO LOOK INTO THEIR DUTY BAG AND DIG OUT the code books that they carry, you would be absolutely amazed at the facts they find and how long your citation could get..

ME:"You do not have to give any reason to be subject to a traffic stop."

SO you folks that have submitted your well thought out points of fact(without the burden of fearing for your life, and in the comforts of your home) good job you are well read on the few regs that you have looked up.Anyone can challenge anything in court, it does not mean you will win. Yep, and when you arrive in court don't be scared and don't lie because the judge will pick up on that easily as the Police Officer calmly states the fact of the date in question.

ME:"As opposed to your lack of well thought out points of fact done in the comfort of your home. Funny, risk is part of the cops job and they are paid for that, unlike we civilians. Police are no more well-read on the CVC than a civilian in many cases or one would never get a ticket dismissed and they operate under the color of authority. Yes, anyone can challenge anything in court, including police. However, in court the law itself (the CVC in our context) is king, not what a police officer thinks and/or interprets the law as. One only needs to deal with the code section allegedly violated and one can be well-read on a small section, unlike an officer who allegedly is well-read on the entire code and thinks they know it all. In court the judge has to dismiss your citiation if you prove to him/her that you did not violate the cited CVC section with reasonable doubt in your favor. It's easy to win based on the truth and the law as written. Many times one observes a police officer in court calmly mis-state the facts of the case based on the officer's mis-interpretation of the actual code section. Theoretically an officers testimony is no more valid than yours."

WHATEVER......just enjoy the ride

"Just remember Ira's comments are not any more factual or valid than he thinks mine or any of ours are."

Just my fifty cents

ira

still driving my 74 02' Tii Fjord & 71 02' 5spd Granada, 38/38

[scestes]

I think people are misunderstanding my post. I am never anything BUT polite to Law Enforcement. My uncle is a cop in Washington and has worked everything from traffic, to under cover, to gang task force. I have no issues with Law Enforcement, rather I misunderstood the context of what "Smog Exempt" actually implied.

Several people have pointed out that I wasn't actually cited for any of the modifications made to my car. I'm glad for that. I think it's just fair to warn others though that should they be confronted by a similar situation, it's probably better to play dumb "Oh really? I bought the car this way and thought it was stock.", rather than chat it up with "Oh man, check this out. I've got dual Weber 45's, a hot 292 cam, Tii brakes, etc etc etc".

I also forgot that I do have the roll bar in my car. Yet another reason why I may have been targeted by this particular CHP. I'm going to have to contemplate pulling that out when I'm not actually on the track with the car.

Also please understand everyone, I wasn't looking to start some huge argument, rather, like I said, I misunderstood what smog exempt implied in relation to the equipment I'm allowed to run on my car.

To summarize.

a) I'm playing dumb when it comes to what's install on my car when talking to law enforcement in the future.

Starbucks has replaced the donut shop as the best place to find a law enforcement officer (at least in my area)

c) smog exempt just means you don't have to have the car tested every other year, but you're supposed to have all your kit intact and operating.

d) expired tags and roll bars attract the attention of CHP officers and make them want to pull you over instead of pulling into the cop shop to go home for the day.

e) Had I sent in my check for my registration 2 weeks earlier, I probably wouldn't have had this encounter to begin with.

f) F is for finally the Monterey Historics are around the corner, and I'm driving my car with expired tags to it unless they show up in the mail in the next few days!

[Guest Anonymous]

Hi Scott,

I understood your original post. When I replied it was not to put you on blast. So, I apologize to you..

ira

[scestes]

Hi Scott,

I understood your original post. When I replied it was not to put you on blast. So, I apologize to you..

ira

It's all good Ira, I took no offense. I understand that reading the printed word definitely doesn't care the same tone as hearing it as spoken word. I do want everyone to know that I appreciate the conversation though. As I said, it is my fault that I took smog exempt to mean that I was allowed to make any modifications to my car I wanted to. It's been a learning experience for sure. I'm just glad the officer didn't write me up for anything other than having expired tags.

[Guest Anonymous]

Your post reminded me of driving licensed Model T's on the highways and being chronically pulled over - no matter what time of the day!

When the mandatory seat belt laws were just becoming enforceable, we received a few questions about where they [seat belts] were. (There were none.) When the same female cop stopped me again and then asked about an airbag, my friend in the passenger seat asked her out for a date and they started going out.

Seeing an unusual car piques curiosity - about the car and the driver. It may also engender other emotions, including envy, disdain and probable cause. More facts, may change reactions. Reasonable people may disagree as to what response might be reasonable. "Grow a sack." is probably not one of them. lol

[Pierre]

is that a lot of the smog equipment is expensive to replace when they fail, or may not be available to be replaced.

So, when a thermal reactor cracks on a 75 and it's replaced with a standard manifold, it is not effectively a violation. New reactors are not available from BMW.

I spoke to a CHP officer once regarding my 69. I have a 5-point harness which is not DOT approved. However, the 69 came with lap belts only. If I only use the lap section of the harness, it would be the equivalent of stock. The shoulder harness provides additional protection in case of an impact. I have a rollbar too. (You should not have a harness without a rollbar) If I was ticketed and went in front of a judge, I would argue that the state is preventing me from installing safety equipment on my car, and it is my right to protect myself from injury in case of an accident, especially in a car that had poor safety equipment back in 1969.

[Harv]

So what do all the street rod people do in Ca? I mean, a blown 427 Model T is not the way it came from the factory. I'm guessing, it's smog exempt.

John

[Guest Anonymous]

is that a lot of the smog equipment is expensive to replace when they fail, or may not be available to be replaced.

So, when a thermal reactor cracks on a 75 and it's replaced with a standard manifold, it is not effectively a violation. New reactors are not available from BMW. I spoke to a CHP officer once regarding my 69. I have a 5-point harness which is not DOT approved. However, the 69 came with lap belts only. If I only use the lap section of the harness, it would be the equivalent of stock. The shoulder harness provides additional protection in case of an impact. I have a rollbar too. (You should not have a harness without a rollbar) If I was ticketed and went in front of a judge, I would argue that the state is preventing me from installing safety equipment on my car, and it is my right to protect myself from injury in case of an accident, especially in a car that had poor safety equipment back in 1969.

Interesting argument. But not perfect.

You might feel safer driving with a full face helmet in your daily driver. But you might find yourself cited for unsafe driving due to a reasonable interpretation that the helmet impairs your vision or ability to hear sirens. Similar argument respecting headsets. You might similarly overpad your dash to the point where it looks like something driven in combat.

A rule of reason should apply, but often doesn't. Some roll cages are more flashy than others:)

[Guest Anonymous]

So what do all the street rod people do in Ca? I mean, a blown 427 Model T is not the way it came from the factory. I'm guessing, it's smog exempt. John

Maybe, maybe not. Shelby's recently pieced together Cobras are still 1965's and need to comply with the laws then in effect. At least that's what he contends.

Most state vehicle codes cover experimental and collector vehicles. What makes a vehicle unworthy for the public highway can be a subject which expert may disagree. By analogy, the FAA may not find your Bleriot airworthy even though MikeS personally flew it to WrightPat!

This may answer your question in a roundabout way:

(a) "Collector" is the owner of one or more vehicles described in

Section 5004 or of one or more special interest vehicles, as defined

in this article, who collects, purchases, acquires, trades, or

disposes of the vehicle, or parts thereof, for his or her own use, in

order to preserve, restore, and maintain the vehicle for hobby or

historical purposes.

( "Special interest vehicle" is a vehicle of an age that is

unaltered from the manufacturer's original specifications and,

because of its significance, including, but not limited to, an

out-of-production vehicle or a model of less than 2,000 sold in

California in a model-year, is collected, preserved, restored, or

maintained by a hobbyist as a leisure pursuit.

© "Parts car" is a motor vehicle that is owned by a collector to

furnish parts for restoration or maintenance of a special interest

vehicle or a vehicle described in Section 5004, thus enabling a

collector to preserve, restore, and maintain a special interest

vehicle or a vehicle described in Section 5004.

(d) "Street rod vehicle" is a motor vehicle, other than a

motorcycle, manufactured in, or prior to, 1948 that is individually

modified in its body style or design, including through the use of

nonoriginal or reproduction components, and may include additional

modifications to other components, including, but not limited to, the

engine, drivetrain, suspension, and brakes in a manner that does not

adversely affect its safe performance as a motor vehicle or render

it unlawful for highway use.