engine and drivetrain 68 1600 engine bay wiring question - relay(s)

[jerry]

i'm trying to sort out the wiring harnesses of two 6-fuse cars one's a 1968 1600 the other one is an early 1971 2002.

i am uncertain if the 1600 has a starter relay? there are no screw holes for it near the coil location.

both cars have a cylindrical-shaped relay near the coil area. this relay is taller than the horn relay that is typically near the regulator.

my 71 02 has both a horn relay (near the regulator), a starter relay (near the coil, located on the firewall) and that third relay.

my 68 1600 is missing any wires for a horn relay and no apparent location for a starter relay.

btw, the 1600 was given to me after being parted out somewhat, so i'm working with a somewhat hacked engine bay.

i've come a long way with sorting out the wiring on these cars but this is driving me nuts.

is there anyone in marin with an early 6-fuse car i could refer to?

[2002john]

I have 68 2002, and from manual 6 fuse system is straight shot from ingition switch tab#50 black wire to starter solinoid tab #50 on starter. So on starter you have battery plus and black wire coming from ignition switch grounding is via connection to block.

[Arshloch]

68's didn't come with the starter relay (later cars did, or had a resistor wire) or with the resistor and due coil. It was probably a "heavy duty ignition" option at the time.

The relay you are talking about is the wiper/washer pump delaying relay.

Also look if your starter has an additional prong on the solenoid. It's in itself a relay and does the resistor by-passing whenever the starter is engaged. That's the way mine is hooked up.

[Mike Self]

the early ones do...

mike

[c.d.iesel]

out-there candy

and early 1600 D-Shaft nightmare

some wires. .. . .

and funky axle shafts

[/img]

[jerry]

thanks guys. from all the comments it seems like i'm done.

from what i gather, my 68 has no horn relay, hence no missing wires at that location.

although, i did notice a pair of what appears to be very small screw holes at a distance corresponding to the relay bracket mount holes.

with a car this old (build date: 4/9/68), i can't rule out a later modification by a PO at some point.

the single thick black wire to the starter solenoid is consistent with what i have on the 68.

HOWEVER, my 71 02 has an additional RED wire that must attach to the starter somewhere and goes back to the starter relay. the red wire has a loop end-fitting and not a female-connector as the black lead has.

also, i installed a factory-rebuilt engine from a '76 02 into this 1600 as it came to me without engine/tranny/interior the starter is the E30-type small style.

i look forward to getting both these cars running as they both came to me as parts cars.

[Mike Self]

"although, i did notice a pair of what appears to be very small screw holes at a distance corresponding to the relay bracket mount holes."

If you look carefullly on both your '68 and your '71, you'll notice there are three holes there--the third hole is for an identical relay to the horn's but for the factory accessory fog or driving lights. Years ago I found a 100 watt Volvo overdrive relay that's identical to the '02 horn relay and it fit into that extra hole perfectly, with the two center mounts overlapping. That second relay powers my driving lights.

mike

[jerry]

yes, you are right. there are indeed THREE holes adjacent to the regulator as you described and they do line up as you stated.

SOOOOO, does that mean that i should wire in a horn relay on the 68? i just don't want to create hot wires that burn insulation.

i had to splice more than a couple wires on this car to clean up the frayed, dirty, burned worn out engine bay harness. fortunately, i have a couple scrap harnesses to splice the appropriate colored wires.

[Mike Self]

time, you don't really need a relay. If you add a second horn, or install air horns, then I'd recommend a relay. But for a single horn, used circumspectly for occasional tootles, nah!

mike

[2002john]

Horn relay is by battery, should have red wire direct from battery on tab 30, on 6 fuse model, should also see green/grey wires that connected to horns there as well