engine and drivetrain Maybe found a roundie...Is it worth it?

[Christen]

You guys are the experts, so here goes...

As some of you know, I'm in the hunt for a roundie. So tell me, is this car worth the 8k the guy is asking for it?? If not, how much should I offer?

Here are the pics

This car belonged to the grandfather of the present owner, and is a one owner car. It's a 69 model. Everything is original. The engine starts and runs. The guy also says the 81k on the odo is the original mileage and the car has been garaged for the past 18 years. The only blemish on the exterior is the two rusty scratches on the hood, as seen in one of the photos. The problem with the car is that the brakes are completely locked up and the car won't move. I would have to trailer the car here to NC from PA.

[Guest]

do a brake upgrade ,suspension, new tires,wheels ( or not) new exhasut w header( or Not), and she might be worth 6500

[TTyMiller]

Why don't you have the seller unseize the brakes so you can drive it first.

It looks like a good solid car to me; but I would offer him less especially since it can't be drivenin it's current state. Offer him around 4.k

[ClayW]

I agree. It's overpriced. Something stinks, too.

Nice car, though. It's worth $3000-4000 in my opinion. The fact that it doesn't move is a problem. For all you know, the suspension, transmission and differential are trash, too. Bet on $500-700 worth of springs, shocks and any bushings that might be gone. I'd do the bigger brakes, which will be another $1000 or so, if you shop around and do the work yourself.

I'd also get those scratches fixed. That's like $500, at least. They've been neglected, so it's no touch-up job.

Otherwise, check the car out for rust. Look in all the typical places and take a refridgerator magnet to check for bond-o.

There is, however, still the chance that it's a solid, original car. Just keep it all in perspective. Use the car's shortcomings to drive the price down. It's DEFINITELY not worth $8,000. Go bargain but be ready to walk away.

[Guest Anonymous]

Value is in the eye of the beholder. This is a very clean early and original car. That being said, for serious money, I'd want it to atleast be driveable. Ask the owner to get the brakes fixed and offer them $6K. Good luck.

_________________________

Roger

'72 Malaga

[KB73]

I wouldn't pay eight grand for a car I can't test drive - too risky. The fact that it can't be driven puts it in "project car" territory, in my opinion.

If you proceed, I would find out what "garaged for the last 18 years" means. Does that mean it sat for 18 years, or it was driven and parked indoors? If it sat for 18 years, you can bet it will have issues beyond the brakes. If it was driven, did it see winters? It doesn't look rusty, but be sure to check the usual spots.

Nice color, very original and complete. If you can get the owner to get it rolling so you can drive it, I might say it's worth $5-6k (from the hip), but that's assuming it runs as good as it looks.

Kristian

[Christen]

Thanks for all the info folks! I really appreciate it.

So I'm thinking the concensus is to offer 3-4k for the car sight unseen? Or would that be 3-4k with me driving up to PA and inspecting the car for hidden bondo, rust, mech problems and what not?

I know my way around engines, brakes, and suspensions, from driving and racing old VW's and Chebbies when I was younger, so mechanical issues aren't that big of a deal to me. Actually, my first car when I was a newbie driver fresh with her license was a VW bug. I was initiated to auto work pretty quick! I would also upgrade to a big disc brake set anyhow. But I do like a body and interior that I don't have to mess with very much.

[MikeD]

Christen

It looks like a real nice car. You should look at it in person. If you don't buy it let me know. I would be interested.

[Guest Anonymous]

Tough crowd... The thing is, if you follow the boards pricing advice (with all due respect), you'd look for 25 years without finding anything...

Some members are lucky enough to have great cars fall into their hands, or live in areas ripe with nice cheap rust free 2002s, or base their mental price guide on the last 2 good deals they or their friend's got...

We cannot all be so lucky! In my neck of the woods, I looked for 6 months and had to "settle" on a 73 roundie with mechanical issues and some surface rust (cosmetic but $$$) for $4500 and I was HAPPY to find a goddamn one ! ;-) I now have over 10K in the car and it's still nowhere near perfect... I bet I am not alone in this, either, but you always hear about the good deals more than the tough breaks!

So take the advice above with a grain of salt, that car looks nice in pictures, if it does not need too much work, who knows... Those cars sure are going up in price !

Best thing you can do though is buy from an idiot like me, who spent $$$ $ into making the car right, and will likely sell at a $4000 loss someday, unless the market catches quick. Buy someone else's mistake ;-)

[stone02]

Hi,

if the car is in the philadelphia area i can look at it for

you. i have a shop in down town philly. if you tell me what

pictures you would like i will take them and e-mail them to

you. let me know.

stone

stone racing co

215.520.6718

[auggiemize]

Christen, Much of this whole decision becomes your budget, and PO's attachment/sentimental attachment. If he thinks he might get 8K, no way that he'll take less than 5K. Grandpa, I mean the car, is worth more than that. Get my drift?... Since you can do some wrenching, you're saving $2.5K of the labor required to re-do the old and seized, dead and dry, and the cracked, rotten, and missing. Parts for the above to just put the aforementioned right: $3K? Paint and bodywork, depends on the way the car was treated for the 21 years (in PA) before it was garaged. But a proper bare re-paint with a little rust work should be at least $5K. The photos are on a dry somewhat sunny day; is that window moisture dew, or on the inside? If its inside, then my guess is that this puppy stinks and the carpet, et. al. have the mildew monster. Which asks whats under the carpet. Note the rusty screw on the left of the instument cluster...You've now spent $7-8K not counting the price of the car and the $1K to get it to Wilmington...I guess my point is a dry-bodyied car with upgrades ready to drive from a place where cactus grows wild for $9K can make some sense. Let someone else spend $16K on upgrades and sell for $9K (And you could drive it home...)

I bought a 70 Mercedes 250coupe from a collector in the NE off ebay a few years back that was beautiful, garage kept for 22 years, and a steal at $3800, until the car carrier unloaded and we tried to jack it up. No under-carriage to speak of. Sold it for $800. Interior was perfect, by the way.

This car does look like a diamond in the rough, and if its what it looks like, a very good $6-6500 car...if it runs (as previously discussed) and has no rust/moisture issues.

As the economy is starting to suck in a major way, the number of solid, upgraded 2002's on the market will increase, as it's harder to justify toys. My 02 cents worth would be to take $4500 cash and make a road trip to see the car. If its as clean, dry, and rust free as they say, I'd buy it. If the car cannot be put on a lift, go see the Liberty Bell. Play hard ball and as said, be prepared to leave with your cash to play another day. Good luck and let us know what happens. Dave V. in NC

[bmw_jeff]

Nice looking car, especially for the east coast. If its mostly rust free then the price is just a little high because you can't move it. You have to assume the tranny and diff may be bad or have grinding synchros etc even though they may be just fine. If the car was driving and moving normally the price is reasonable, but with frozen brakes the price is a bit high.

[ClayW]

Thanks for all the info folks! I really appreciate it.

So I'm thinking the concensus is to offer 3-4k for the car sight unseen? Or would that be 3-4k with me driving up to PA and inspecting the car for hidden bondo, rust, mech problems and what not?

I know my way around engines, brakes, and suspensions, from driving and racing old VW's and Chebbies when I was younger, so mechanical issues aren't that big of a deal to me. Actually, my first car when I was a newbie driver fresh with her license was a VW bug. I was initiated to auto work pretty quick! I would also upgrade to a big disc brake set anyhow. But I do like a body and interior that I don't have to mess with very much.

Take the money with you, but I doubt he'd take a 50% price cut just because you offered cash. You'd also need transport if he took the offer.

Certainly, $3-4K seems about right for site-unseen. Best-case scenario would be no surprises and all you have to do is suspension and brakes stuff and fix those scratches. If that was the case, I'd say that you shouldn't pay a penny over $5K for it, but it's all up to you.

Looks like a pretty nice car. The roundies are drying up and that's potentially a really nice and complete one. It's all up to you. Don't make a decision that you'll regret.

[Mike Self]

that suffered 30 salty Ohio winters, this one better have been put away for the winter, even if it's been off the road for 18 years. My front fenders started to bubble when the car was 18 months old, and the rust went from there.

Stuck brakes are no biggie compared to a rusted out body shell--I re-did mine to a greater or lesser extent three times over the years (welding on about every thing but the roof), and when I finished the last time, no more winters. And it still looks nice after 7 years.

mike

[thehackmechanic]

If you can't drive it, then it is by definition a project car. But if it is truly rust-free with intact paint (scratches notwithstanding) and an original intact interior, then the fact that it can't be driven is irrelevant given the right price point.

If you see it and determine that it is, in fact, rust-free (take a floor jack and jack stands and a good flashlight and crawl ALL UNDER IT), and that the paint isn't cracked and blistered and it'll shine right up with a good compounding, and that the original interior is completely intact, then this is really all that matters, because mechanical work is dirt freaking cheap compared to body restoration.

But if you buy it sight-unseen, when it shows up at your door and has big rust holes, you're going to feel like you've been had.

I wouldn't believe any sight-unseen car was rust-free without an SD card full of high-res photos of every panel, crevice, nook, and cranny.

So the point is that no one can tell you what it's worth when the true condition is so unknown.

--Rob