Wonder what % of 2002's are "still on the road"?

[Jim_75Sahara]

I read in a FORTUNE magazine article that approx. 70% of all Porsche 911's built are still "on the road." I presume they mean not scrapped or rusted away, since a large number may not be on the road very much. Cars that are loved, protected, and Revered (!) would tend to have a high % surviving, right?

[gwb72tii]

you know jimbo, i've wondered about this also, especially in light of owning a tii with a limited number produced to begin with.

[Gordon]

I think it would be based upon geographic area, you don't see many 02's in the midwest and NE since they all rusted away. Here in CA you see them all the time.

G-Man

[Jim_75Sahara]

Does anyone want to run the numbers to figure out what % of '02's are "still on the road" (i.e. viable)?? As to Gordon's remark, yes, it would vary by region, but the overall survival rate as a percentage would be fun to know. I thought the 70% figure posted by the 911 was amazing.

[Mike Self]

somewhere around 15,000 or so in the US, both '02s and 1600s. That figure may be somewhat lower by now due to natural attrition--think about how many folks have reported their cars crunched in an accident, or posted about cars they've parted out.

Approximately 88,000 2002s and 12,000 1600s were imported into the US between 1967 and 1976; this doesn't include grey market cars.

mike

[Jim_75Sahara]

Not in the 70% range, is it? Too bad. I knew you were out there, Mike!

[BarryA]

rate is that they never devalued down to the "cheap beater" level (along with having always been pretty desirable cars in the first place).

Solid, decent running 356s got pretty cheap in the late 60's/early 70's when they were more or less eclipsed by the 911 series - there was a time when four cylinder 914s were a dime a dozen, too, but that never seemed to happen with 911s.

[WH]

somewhere around 15,000 or so in the US, both '02s and 1600s. That figure may be somewhat lower by now due to natural attrition--think about how many folks have reported their cars crunched in an accident, or posted about cars they've parted out.

Approximately 88,000 2002s and 12,000 1600s were imported into the US between 1967 and 1976; this doesn't include grey market cars.

mike

Is this cars on the road or just cars left?

I read in a AH club magazine a couple years ago that for 1952-1956 100-4 Healey's (14,500 total built) they estimated nearly 50% still left in the entire world, or 7,250 and since 80% of those cars were shipped to the USA, that means about 5,800 still here. They didn't state if these cars where "drivable", but if we take a good figure of about 1/4 of those cars are drivable or still in use, or 1450 left on the road. That's about 10% of what was built. There are currently 2000 cars registered with the 100-4 registry, but registries are rarely complete and are always being updated. I know my 3 cars are not in it.

Super low production cars like the 100M (640 total built). There are 155 known so far to exist (25%). Of the 100S cars built 55, 35 are known to exist (over 60%)

Since 2002's are a much higher production car and are newer by 20 years, I'd think stats 5-7% higher would not be out of line or 15,000 still driving around. Close to your number.

I'd think actual cars still left here would be 25% (25,000). I see quite a few in the PNW, most are not being used and are in storage, I see at least 3 times the amount sitting as I do on the road.

WH

BTW I don't buy the 70% of all 911's still on the road, even if they are counting all the new 911's in the lot. Since 911 production stretches over 40 years that would be a huge number of cars. Even in modern times 1990-2008 20+% fallout would not be unreasonable due to accidents etc, so someone's trying to say to stats would continue to pre 1990 cars back to the day the first 911 was built? Naaaaa I don't think so. I've seen the rust in pre 1973 cars, there's no way 70% of those cars are still here.

[Jim_75Sahara]

A 70% survival rate for the 911 seems high to me, too. Accidents would surely eat up quite a few over time. Conversely the survival rate of Vegas, Pintos, Chevettes, Cimarrons, Escorts, etc. must be at the opposite end of the spectrum! Got a problem with your old zero-residual-value-car? --- chuck it onto the scrap heap and get a real car!!

[WH]

A 70% survival rate for the 911 seems high to me, too. Accidents would surely eat up quite a few over time. Conversely the survival rate of Vegas, Pintos, Chevettes, Cimarrons, Escorts, etc. must be at the opposite end of the spectrum! Got a problem with your old zero-residual-value-car? --- chuck it onto the scrap heap and get a real car!!

Yeh, I agree. Ever try to find a 1971 Pinto or Capri? I don't think there are any left. Ok I confess, I was looking for one because of a lotus project I have... and wanted the pinto engine (British Ford push rod 1600 --same as a Formula Ford). I looked for years off and on and could only find the newer pintos with OHC engine.

Lucky for me I stumbled upon a guy with 3 spare engines and a 1969 Cortina 4 door! Got all for $400. Now I have spares galore!

WH

As for 911's I've never understood all the hoopla, I've driven them, they're ok but most I think are underpowered. I don't consider them a "sports car" they're a 2+2 GT. I also felt they weren't as quick or handled as well as my similar year BMW's which to me are just sedans. A sports car should be better than that. Also a "real" sports car needs 2 doors, 2 seats and hopefully no top.... ah that's what life is about!

[Emyers]

100% of mine is on the road...

Earl

[Guest]

OK. region of country/world has a lot to do with it(visibility), but 60 miles from Chicago, in the last eight years, I haven't seen one pre '75 911(they are RUST buckets!) nor any 2002s on the road --summer or winter. (I do drive mine occasionally).

Tii's? Everybodies estimates are way to high. I can account for SIX K'fish pumps that ARE NOT attached to a car. Two other Tii owners/friends of mine probably can account for another six or seven. The pumps obviously came from cars that didn't make it. I wonder how many other Tii owners have a stash of pumps too. There are a lot fewer Tii's than you imagine.

mac.

[WH]

OK. region of country/world has a lot to do with it(visibility), but 60 miles from Chicago, in the last eight years, I haven't seen one pre '75 911(they are RUST buckets!) nor any 2002s on the road --summer or winter. (I do drive mine occasionally).

Tii's? Everybodies estimates are way to high. I can account for SIX K'fish pumps that ARE NOT attached to a car. Two other Tii owners/friends of mine probably can account for another six or seven. The pumps obviously came from cars that didn't make it. I wonder how many other Tii owners have a stash of pumps too. There are a lot fewer Tii's than you imagine.

mac.

Maybe, but how many tii's have carbs now fitted to them? Seems it was the thing to do in the 1980's when you had k-fish issues. This is no different than dropping chevy 350's into Jags everyone did it, because it cost too much to repair the injection system. Same with Healeys in the 1960 and 1970's tons where fitted with chevy V8's. It's one reason why stock engines for these cars are so scarce today... and you still see quite a few powered by V8's for sale.

Yes, there are getting fewer and fewer tii's stocks running around. I have seen my share of these pumps and engines sitting. But there has to be at least 15% of these cars still here. Which means in the USA, what 1000 or so odd left? Not a huge number by modern standards, but by collectors numbers, that's still a decent amount.

I see 2002's, early 911's fairly often in the summer months, but I never certain other models of cars at all. When the last time you saw a Lotus Cortina on the road? I only see them at car events. I think there are only 5 in the whole PNW, that's probably 1/20th of the tii's running around.

WH

[nesky45]

"Even in Germany, 2002 models are now becoming are rare sight. Since the end of the 1970's, the Germans have been scrapping 02 range cars at the rate of 30,000 a year, and one result is that the majority of 02 series cars (including 2002's) nowdays are probably based in the USA, Japan and the UK. Ther are probably around 10,000 02's in the USA, 5,000 in Japan and a further 5,000 in the UK"

Page 95

The BMW 2002

a comprehensive guide to the classic sporting saloon

Mike Macartney

Copyright of the book is 1996, so if we use 104,000 as our base number (88,000 +16,000) there were about 10% of USA cars left, not counting how many have gone to the junk yard the last 12 years.

Craig

'

[Guest]

Quantity manufactured and quantity remaining don't deem it "collectible" or not. The car has to "earn" its status, people can't declare it so. (Although a lot of people try.)

A tii with Webers isn't a Tii.

When was the last time I saw a Lotus Cortina? Every time I see my neighbor at the Stor-N-Lok(not that rare after all ?). Right next to one of my Tii's.

mac.

Happy Holiday's to All. And to all a Good Night.