engine and drivetrain Thick smell (NOT GASOLINE) on decel (tii)

[fiftytakedowns]

This has been a reocurring problem since I have had the car, and finally I'm fed up because I get woozy while driving, and girlfriend gets headaches.

I have 1974 tii with a rebuilt engine. It has all of the Emisson controls removed, but the plugs are all blocked off on the plenum and the air cleaner. The smell is almost like exhaust, but more like the oil blow out into the cleaner, but it is thick, and a hot smell.

Thanks in Advance

[Green2k2]

check for leaky seals on the tranny. You may be dripping oil onto the exhaust right at your shifter (or there abouts).

shifter seal

rear output seal

speedo cable

etc...

[Guest Anonymous]

Check firewall insulation and the several under-the-hood seals that keep engine fumes out of passenger compartment.

____________________________

Roger

'72 Malaga

[Mike Self]

it could be carbon monoxide...

Things to check:

In front--all three seals around the heater plenum: two side seals and the one on the hood's underside. The three "elephant trunks"--plenum chamber drains--they must be closed at the bottom when not actually draining water. All exhaust pipe joints.

Inside: any holes in the firewall (A/C hoses, for example); a torn shift boot and/or missing foam sealing ring.

In back--any air passage between the trunk and the passenger compartment--speaker cutouts in the package shelf, spaces under the C pillar and behind the rear seats that are usually stuffed with foam, but where the foam has rotted. Also check the flow-through air ducts (non-sunroof cars) to make sure they haven't come loose in the trunk. Reason to check?

That flat 2002 backside creates a vacuum while you're driving, and exhaust fumes can be sucked into the trunk. From there they can drift into the pax compartment, especially thru speaker holes.

You can help determine what the fumes are by putting a battery operated CO detector in your car and driving around to see if it goes off. That'll tell you if you're dealing with exhaust or some other fume source.

DON'T WASTE TIME--DO THIS NOW. CO IS DEADLY STUFF.

cheers

mike

[jerry]

maybe it's an exhaust leak

from the HEADER you SWINDLED off me.

serves you right.

i tried to do you a favor and you thank me by trying to pawn a rusty/used set of springs on me (after installing my headers on your car) then offer me a low-ball offer ($50) for my very lightly used headers.

had you not so blatantly tried to scam me with the NEW (your emphasis) springs i'd have probably accepted $50.

btw, there's a cracked, well-worn header on ebay right now at the $50 starting bid.

To the rest of the Forum:

sorry for the rant, but i resent being taken advantage of by a teenager i tried to help. This kid is anything but an honest, straightforward person. prior attempts to mitigate this offline were unsucessful. i leave this posting as a warning to others.

[jrhone]

Is your crankcase spitting out oil onto your engine? Its happening to me as well....my crankcase vent is being sent to a filter in the engine bay....then I think its spilling onto a hot engine block and I smell burnt oil....which is thick. Maybe this is whats happening to you as well....The solution is to rout the pcv tube under the car so it wont hit a hot engine when it comes out....

[fiftytakedowns]

maybe it's an exhaust leak

from the HEADER you SWINDLED off me.

serves you right.

i tried to do you a favor and you thank me by trying to pawn a rusty/used set of springs on me (after installing my headers on your car) then offer me a low-ball offer ($50) for my very lightly used headers.

had you not so blatantly tried to scam me with the NEW (your emphasis) springs i'd have probably accepted $50.

btw, there's a cracked, well-worn header on ebay right now at the $50 starting bid.

To the rest of the Forum:

sorry for the rant, but i resent being taken advantage of by a teenager i tried to help. This kid is anything but an honest, straightforward person. prior attempts to mitigate this offline were unsucessful. i leave this posting as a warning to others.

I hate to be going down to your level , but the springs had less than 500 miles, were NOT RUSTY, while your header wwas rusty, and after I sanded it and painted it, it looked presentable. 500 miles is still damn new. I am in College, not a business. My car could not drive out of the parking lot without a set of headers. I am not trying to SCAM you but drive my car. If you think I am trying to make a living off of 'stealing' a set of headers YOU told me i could KEEP. You gave them to me, and I needed them. Sorry the springs weren't unused unscratched, and still in the box.

You were calling me names on email, and embarassing me on the forum. But I have no regrets, because I spent the summer in the shop rebuilt my motor in a month. I offered you a good deal, you accepted, then threw my stuff back in my face and said I can keep it all.

What difference does being a teenager make? Im a hoodlem?! A threat to society? Sorry you can not take me seriously.

I apologize to everyone else.

[fiftytakedowns]

Thank you everyone for your help.

Defintley smells like Burnt oil (from crankcase) with a hint of CO because of headaches.

I have a small hole behind the rear back seat a bit larger than a quarter, and a little deck over where the rear speakers were, but the speakers are no longer there, so trunk exhaust is definitley a possibilty. Tommorow I will inspect all of the mentioned problems, and do process of elimination.

[Guest Anonymous]

it could be carbon monoxide...

You can help determine what the fumes are by putting a battery operated CO detector in your car and driving around to see if it goes off. That'll tell you if you're dealing with exhaust or some other fume source.

DON'T WASTE TIME--DO THIS NOW. CO IS DEADLY STUFF.

cheers

mike

Not to be a pain mike... just bustin' yer bawls.... but carbon monoxide is colorless and odorless

it is deadly though-- your recent media proof is those three girls that died near that ski resort just about two weeks ago because of it

[Guest Anonymous]

I read the entire thread and feel as if I have been subjected to CO poisoning! As others have noted, there is no such thing as just a hint of CO. Fortunately for you, the 02 cabin is almost as porous as a convertible with the windows up. Your spelling and description of the smell as "thick" and "hot" make me wonder if you are currently too close to the exhaust. If your car is a Tii, even the 74 has minimal emissions-related equipment and I wonder whether you have not plugged or disconnected something that should have been left alone. You do not say how the engine runs and this makes me wonder if you think the engine is in optimal running condition, but maybe it is marginal and you really are smelling exhaust. CO is no doubt an exhaust byproduct, but even unburnt hydrocarbons can make you feel lightheaded. You state the problem has been recurring. Does this mean there are times when the problem does not exist or does it happen always? If it happens only sometimes, is it when you have a full tank of gas or a full trunk or an empty tank? The point being that there may be a cause and effect for you to consider.

If you rebuilt the engine - well, you should not have any blow by with which to be concerned. Oil leaks should also be nonexistent. That does not mean you do not have a problem with transmission oil dripping on a hot exhaust. As MikeS noted, your cabin should be sealed and if the trunk seal is poor or the trunk fit not tight, you may as well not have a trunk lid at all.

Fumes from the engine bay should not be detected in the cabin. Yet the fact that you installed a header and evidently did so on the fly makes me think your exhaust is leaking at the exhaust ports and you are not aware of it or haven chosen to ignore it. Headers are notorious for poor fit on a head and this is particularly true on used headers that are easily bent in transit.

I hate to be going down to your level , but the springs had less than 500 miles, were NOT RUSTY, while your header wwas rusty, and after I sanded it and painted it, it looked presentable. 500 miles is still damn new. I am in College, not a business. My car could not drive out of the parking lot without a set of headers. I am not trying to SCAM you but drive my car. If you think I am trying to make a living off of 'stealing' a set of headers YOU told me i could KEEP. You gave them to me, and I needed them. Sorry the springs weren't unused unscratched, and still in the box.

You were calling me names on email, and embarassing me on the forum. But I have no regrets, because I spent the summer in the shop rebuilt my motor in a month. I offered you a good deal, you accepted, then threw my stuff back in my face and said I can keep it all.

What difference does being a teenager make? Im a hoodlem?! A threat to society? Sorry you can not take me seriously.

I am not able to take sides respecting your unfortunate header situation. But since you undertook to explain things, I do not think your explanation is particularly compelling.

It is obvious you fellows did not have a meeting of the minds. You state you could not drive out of the parking lot without headers. I fail to understand why this was, but you make it appear the other party was trying to take advantage of your alleged handicap. If you knew the other party was dissatisfied, you could have offered to remove and return the header at your earliest opportunity. You have no regrets because you spent the summer in the shop [and] rebuilt your motor in a month. Summer is three months long and how you spent your summer has little bearing on responsibility.

Age, should not matter, but I think the other party is asserting you could have acted more maturely and that your age is not a defense to what happened. Nor does you being in college and not operating a business have any particular merit. Alleged bad behavior, by a business or a college student, is still bad behavior. Businesses are no more apt to scam as college students.

The header owner's approach is almost as curious as yours. Maybe he sincerely thought he was doing you a favor by letting you try out the header. If that were true, he made a mistake in not fully understanding the situation including your true intentions. If he complained at first viewing of the springs - that should have ended the matter and you two should have returned everything and parted ways none the wiser. It is not clear whether you installed the header before the other party accepted your springs but the other party evidently abandoned his position out of frustration. That still does not make your behavior more acceptable than his.

As I understand it, you received the better part of the deal, and because you cosmetically chose to improve the header does not justify keeping a header you received by default.

Good luck with your exhaust issues, your wrestling career, academic career and your future business relations.

[Mike Self]

when it comes from an internal combustion engine, it's from the exhaust, and that smells...and it'll still kill ya, or at least make you very sick.

I learned the hard way many years ago--you'd never believe a rear engined car (not a VW with bad heat exchangers) could get CO into the passenger compartment at highway speeds, but my Renault did--still not sure how, but after a couple hundred miles I was very sick, and had a headache for two days afterwards. It was cold on that trip and I was running with the windows closed, trying to stay warm with the car's minimal heater. Shoulda opened a window just a little...lesson learned.

cheers

mike

[jerry]

I hate to be going down to your level , but the springs had less than 500 miles, were NOT RUSTY, while your header wwas rusty, and after I sanded it and painted it, it looked presentable. 500 miles is still damn new. I am in College, not a business. My car could not drive out of the parking lot without a set of headers. I am not trying to SCAM you but drive my car. If you think I am trying to make a living off of 'stealing' a set of headers YOU told me i could KEEP. You gave them to me, and I needed them. Sorry the springs weren't unused unscratched, and still in the box.

You were calling me names on email, and embarassing me on the forum. But I have no regrets, because I spent the summer in the shop rebuilt my motor in a month. I offered you a good deal, you accepted, then threw my stuff back in my face and said I can keep it all.

What difference does being a teenager make? Im a hoodlem?! A threat to society? Sorry you can not take me seriously.

I apologize to everyone else.

you have an inflated sense of self-entitlement...

i went out of my way to drop these headers off at your mechanic and accept your springs sight unseen based soley on your description and the mistaken belief that this would be another pleasant, honest transaction as i have enjoyed from others on this Forum.

i did so because you asked me to and i wanted to help you get your car out of his shop ASAP. by the time you presented your springs to me (on my return from work the same day) with a flimsy explanation of why NEW springs would require a 'quicky' respray, you had already installed my Headers. not wanting to make a 'scene' in front of this mechanic, who is well known locally, among the 02 crowd, i took you at your word.

however, upon closer inspection (back at home) it was obvious that your springs were not remotely new and i was incensed that you would try to pull that off on me after going out of my way to try to help you. had you 'fessed up at the time i would have been more amenable to a more generous compromise but you only dug in deeper with inconsistent excuses and denials.

your springs started out as being NEW, then you stated they had only 1000 miles of use on them, now 5 months later, they are down to 500 miles of use on them. i suppose by next summer they should be NEW again!.

what you have yet to understand, and appreciate, is that this issue is not really about the money per se (i GAVE a complete, running 2002 to a friend's 15 y/o son as his first car, who's currently rebuilding it and learning welding and mechanics), but rather about honesty and integrity.

This Forum is not just about the cars, but also about the people who enjoy them. For the most part, my experiences with members have been positive. It is instances like these that when left unchallenged, can foster a belief in some that it's OK to try to gain advantage by half-truths and deception.

btw, i also told you at the time, i already had a spare set of nearly new ST Springs awaiting installation, so my motivation to trade my one-and-only set of headers was truely to try to help another 02er out. i regret now that i wasted that good-will on you.

[fiftytakedowns]

I hate to be going down to your level , but the springs had less than 500 miles, were NOT RUSTY, while your header wwas rusty, and after I sanded it and painted it, it looked presentable. 500 miles is still damn new. I am in College, not a business. My car could not drive out of the parking lot without a set of headers. I am not trying to SCAM you but drive my car. If you think I am trying to make a living off of 'stealing' a set of headers YOU told me i could KEEP. You gave them to me, and I needed them. Sorry the springs weren't unused unscratched, and still in the box.

You were calling me names on email, and embarassing me on the forum. But I have no regrets, because I spent the summer in the shop rebuilt my motor in a month. I offered you a good deal, you accepted, then threw my stuff back in my face and said I can keep it all.

What difference does being a teenager make? Im a hoodlem?! A threat to society? Sorry you can not take me seriously.

I apologize to everyone else.

you have an inflated sense of self-entitlement...

i went out of my way to drop these headers off at your mechanic and accept your springs sight unseen based soley on your description and the mistaken belief that this would be another pleasant, honest transaction as i have enjoyed from others on this Forum.

i did so because you asked me to and i wanted to help you get your car out of his shop ASAP. by the time you presented your springs to me (on my return from work the same day) with a flimsy explanation of why NEW springs would require a 'quicky' respray, you had already installed my Headers. not wanting to make a 'scene' in front of this mechanic, who is well known locally, among the 02 crowd, i took you at your word.

however, upon closer inspection (back at home) it was obvious that your springs were not remotely new and i was incensed that you would try to pull that off on me after going out of my way to try to help you. had you 'fessed up at the time i would have been more amenable to a more generous compromise but you only dug in deeper with inconsistent excuses and denials.

your springs started out as being NEW, then you stated they had only 1000 miles of use on them, now 5 months later, they are down to 500 miles of use on them. i suppose by next summer they should be NEW again!.

what you have yet to understand, and appreciate, is that this issue is not really about the money per se (i GAVE a complete, running 2002 to a friend's 15 y/o son as his first car, who's currently rebuilding it and learning welding and mechanics), but rather about honesty and integrity.

This Forum is not just about the cars, but also about the people who enjoy them. For the most part, my experiences with members have been positive. It is instances like these that when left unchallenged, can foster a belief in some that it's OK to try to gain advantage by half-truths and deception.

btw, i also told you at the time, i already had a spare set of nearly new ST Springs awaiting installation, so my motivation to trade my one-and-only set of headers was truely to try to help another 02er out. i regret now that i wasted that good-will on you.

It got thrown out of proportion when I was called names, and asked for Two hundered dollars for everything. I offered you money on what I thought everything was worth. I DID APOLOGIZE about our lack of communications numerous times, but you insisted on kicking me on the floor because of my inexperience. And you were right that they were not out of the box new. But they had an entire life ahead of them. The previous owner spray painted them when he gave em to me to make it look more presentable, he asked me before he painted them, and I agreed. I knew little about the factory paint, and thought that it would look better. The rust you see within the scratch the paint came off was from the springs sitting in my garage. I appreciate you were helping, but I dont see why you had to write me in such an insulting manner. Calling me a scammer and more names. I would have returned the headers if you had not told me I could keep them, and rubbed everything in my face.

Im sorry I can't be the recipient of apologies or politeness. I guess now everyone will just look down on me, shun me away, and wont sell me their stuff, or buy mine either. I was just anxious to build my car, and my previous headers were Fubar. I wanted to show the community that I was capable of more than just oil changes.

And Dante:

More IMPORTANT details on the smell.

My engine is running very well. idles smoth drives well. My transmission however does have a film of oil on it, not sure if it is a heavy leak. What I meant by recurring is that IT has been present since I have had the car, but MOST noticable on the freeway slowwing down while in gear. Otherwise the smell is almsot completely undetectable, or unsmellable.

i tried to act as maturley sp.? as I could, but circumstances, and eveything getting personal threw everything out of whack. I am not a scammer, just reacting directly to what you said. even old ST springs for pretty used headers is a good deal.

P.S.

How did you Know I wrestle?

[Guest Anonymous]

More IMPORTANT details on the smell.

My engine is running very well. idles smoth drives well. My transmission however does have a film of oil on it, not sure if it is a heavy leak. What I meant by recurring is that IT has been present since I have had the car, but MOST noticable on the freeway slowwing down while in gear. Otherwise the smell is almsot completely undetectable, or unsmellable.

i tried to act as maturley sp.? as I could, but circumstances, and eveything getting personal threw everything out of whack. I am not a scammer, just reacting directly to what you said. even old ST springs for pretty used headers is a good deal.

P.S.

How did you Know I wrestle?

I assumed English was your minor and you parked your car on a resolite mat.

Regarding your exhaust issues, a trans leak could be annoying but there is only so much oil for it to drip. You could however have a rear main seal leak that oozes around the bellhousing and masquerades as a trans leak. The fact that your engine runs well, in your opinion, is no guarantee that it is tuned to produce the fewest emissions. But you should not be inhaling exhaust fumes from even the best tuned vehicle.

There are a few things you could do, short of removing all the windows in the car. First, get under the car (safely), pretend you are being pinned and then carefully inspect the entire length of your exhaust system to insure the fumes are coming out the tailpipe and not near the cylinder head or near the transmount. I am reluctant to suggest this, but if you were able to run the engine and have someone cup the tailpipe off and on, you might discover an exhaust leak much closer to the cabin. While you are down there examine the floorpan to make sure it is tight and does not have any openings that might permit exhaust fumes to enter the cabin. Go to Walmart and buy a co detector for a couple of bucks and put it on the dash. Seal up the cabin from the truck area. No unsealed speaker holes! Lastly, recheck the trunk gasket and if your exhaust is otherwise shot get a new one.

Good luck.

[rogerspeed]

decel smell, hmm? could you be burning oil, poor rebuild or break-in and the oil gets sucked into the combustion chamber on decel with your foot off the throttle?