engine and drivetrain early tii's - conflicting info: what are the facts?

[jerry]

copied from an earlier post on someone's new purchase:

I believe the first 200 US tii's have a few things that make them different from the later ones. Pistons and head maybe. Maybe Les will chime in.

Jordan

The first 1200 or 1500 '72 Tii's had the 121 head and I believe higher horsepower...something like 140 verses the 125 of the later tiis. I think the 121 head on these early Tii's had larger intake valves than what is found on the carbed version. These cars, with the 121 head also had the black plastic intake elbows going to the intake manifold. Additionally the first 200 or so Tiis had the alternator mount as part of the front timing chain cover...This was changed later to a bolt on mount which bolted directly to the cylinder block.

okay, all this discussion on early tii's has me confused. i have 2760440 which has the integral alternator bracket (broken, now) on the bottom timing cover. i was under the impression that early tii's went up to about the first 750. unfortunately, the engine was rebuilt with piano-tops and an E12 head. but i was planning to return to hi-comp bathtubs as i have a NOS set of Mahle's in my stash.

so folks, what is an early tii after all? my hopes of a 3.45 Diff was dispelled recently too.

[fiftytakedowns]

Looks like the proof is in what you got.

If you have the Lowertiming cover with the alternator bracket mounted into it, then it sounds like you have an early tii. Assuming you checked the vin on your motor, (which it sounds like you did) you can possibly disprove that it maybe was(not) the first 750 that had all the goodies such as the 121. It could be quite possible the motor was rebuilt previously and the earlier lower timing cover was added.

for the 3.45 diff I heard the same that the early tii's had them also, but the only way to find out is to count the teeth, divide the numbers on the side, or take it for a spin!

good luck with your rebuild

[Brandon]

copied from an earlier post on someone's new purchase:

I believe the first 200 US tii's have a few things that make them different from the later ones. Pistons and head maybe. Maybe Les will chime in.

Jordan

The first 1200 or 1500 '72 Tii's had the 121 head and I believe higher horsepower...something like 140 verses the 125 of the later tiis. I think the 121 head on these early Tii's had larger intake valves than what is found on the carbed version. These cars, with the 121 head also had the black plastic intake elbows going to the intake manifold. Additionally the first 200 or so Tiis had the alternator mount as part of the front timing chain cover...This was changed later to a bolt on mount which bolted directly to the cylinder block.

okay, all this discussion on early tii's has me confused. i have 2760440 which has the integral alternator bracket (broken, now) on the bottom timing cover. i was under the impression that early tii's went up to about the first 750. unfortunately, the engine was rebuilt with piano-tops and an E12 head. but i was planning to return to hi-comp bathtubs as i have a NOS set of Mahle's in my stash.

so folks, what is an early tii after all? my hopes of a 3.45 Diff was dispelled recently too.

I could be wrong with the numbers...it may be less than what I stated...I own #270 and #868 currently and both these cars have the 121 head. #270 had the alternator mount on the timing chain cover...#868 has it bolted to the block....both cars have the black plastic intake elbows.

To date I have never seen the 3.45 diff in any US spec Tii and I've owned upwards of 40 as parts cars over the past 20 years...

[Guest]

The blue BMW shop manual has a footnote regarding pistons/compression ratios indicating that all USA Tii's had 9.0:1 c/r.

mac.

[jerry]

The blue BMW shop manual has a footnote regarding pistons/compression ratios indicating that all USA Tii's had 9.0:1 c/r.

mac.

well, it appears that the only differentiating feature that has come to light is the changeover from an integrally cast alternator bracket that occurred sometime between 2760440 (born 1/3/72) and 2760868. i'm assuming the E12 head came to be with the 1973 model.

another question i have is whether all 72tii's had chrome seat brackets? i don't know if this is merely owners swapping out for a bit more bling, or not.

my chrome heater bezels did not have small recesses for the colored arrows that i've seen on other chrome bezels. unfortunately, my bezels are severely pitted so i don't know if they even had colored arrow/markers or not.

[Delia]

another question i have is whether all 72tii's had chrome seat brackets? i don't know if this is merely owners swapping out for a bit more bling, or not.

There is apparently a mid-year changeover for the seat hinges. The last early original car (#2761616) I saw had chrome hinges. It appears as if there are later 1972 tiis with black hinges like the '73s.

FWIW, there were also midyear changes in trim during the '73 model year -- different rear window latches (chrome/black) and threshold plates that covered the entire doorsill (ala '74-'76 models).

Delia

[jgerock]

The Colorado 72tii I inspected in MD (VIN 2762557 with 117,205 miles) had:

Chrome seat hinge covers

Laminated windshield (original owner took delivery in England)

Single (lower) right side heater temp. lever with arrows on silver faceplate

"Fasten Seat Belts" pod on dashboard

"Brake Failure" red lamp in instrument cluster (letters in white maybe done by the owner to make them stand out)

Aluminum intake runner tubes

Bolt-on alternator mount (hard to tell from my pics)

Extra mounting stud just below the KF pump on timing cover

"Close-in" bumper brackets with long style bumpers.

Short bumper overriders (USA style) front and rear

Bill Williams can probably add notes about this car's popout hinges, door sill plates and of course the sticker selection.

[BillWilliams]

It was severely bastardized when I bought it and I have bastardized iteven more.

The touring is Euro spec so those facts do not necessarily carry over to the US cars.

As far as the car you inspected, it seems it was originally bought and driven in Europe but built with the intention to import to US. Mike Self indicated this was common for the US soldiers to do and BMW accommodated them.

The pictures of the orange car are posted under one of the sticker threads.

[jgerock]

Bill - what about the popout hinges and door sill plates (do you recall on the rusty one)?

My car (bastardized as well it seems) has chrome popout hinges and black door sill plates.

[BillWilliams]

I did not take pictures of those details, sorry.