Tii VIN Number Thread

[tjones02]

21 minutes ago, thehackmechanic said:

The parts book shows the first metal intake plenums to be at 2761944, so anything earlier than that has plastic intake plenums.

So those tiis from 2761944 through 2762629 should have metal plenums and close-in bumpers, right? Those are actually the "late '72" cars, right? Does anyone have one?

I've always thought of "early '72tiis" as having plastic intake plenums and close-in bumpers, and "late '72tiis" as having both metal plenums and stood-out bumpers with pointy overriders, but those are actually "model year" '73s that were built and/or titled as '72s, aren't they?

 

Damn I'm learning a lot this week...

 

--Rob

 

If you take into account that the carbureted '02s also changed cylinder heads in mid '72 model year (going from single barrel carburetors to two barrel at the same time) it makes sense that Tiis did the same. While others say they have seen some '72s with plastic and some with metal intakes, maybe even some with 121 heads and metal intakes... I believe these people didn't compare the VINs to the parts book to see whether the car was listed to have 121 or E12 head to begin with and match dates on the head and check the block for matching VIN to the car. That and you have to take into account whether a 121 headed car got a change to metal intakes due to vacuum leak issues with its original plastic intakes. I have to admit that by the time I was paying attention to these things, the cars were old enough and had been through so many hands, that they could've been changed at any time in the years prior to me taking notice. The only person I know that would know for sure is Ben Thongsai.

[Conserv]

41 minutes ago, thehackmechanic said:

 

...So those tiis from 2761944 through 2762629 should have metal plenums and close-in bumpers, right? Those are actually the "late '72" cars, right?...

 

Yes, those are conceptually the "late '72" cars, by which we mean late-1972-model cars.  But, alas, reality will be slightly more...complicated than that.  As with many '02 improvements and changes, the changeover from 121 to E12 head, and concurrently from plastic to aluminum intake runners, and, generally, no-notch to notched firewall did not happen ABSOLUTELY with VIN 2761944.  Rather, it was phased in.  I like Mike S.'s description of using up old inventory or parts at hand, where said application was not illegal (i.e., necessary to meet U.S. DOT or EPA regulations).

 

Paul's F-bomb, for instance, manufactured late June 1972, is in the 2762000's.  Assuming its 121 head and plastic runners are original to the car, it's one of many examples that do not comply precisely with the parts book VIN cut-off.  So by VIN and manufacturing date you might want to call it a late '72, but it is identical to an early '72!  So what is it?

 

And, of course, 1972 U.S. tii production actually began in mid-October 1971, 1973 U.S. tii production began in early October 1972, and 1974 U.S. tii production does not appear to have begun until November 1973, all well after the September commencement of non-tii production.  This makes me wonder, for instance, about some late '72 tii's.  The last '72 I have listed on my VIN cheat sheet is 2762332, manufactured July 26, 1972.  The next listing on my cheat sheet is 2762632, manufactured October 7, 1972, obviously a 1973 model by our criteria.  When were the 300 tii's between these VIN's manufactured?  All in the last days of July? (Recall that the factory was closed for holiday and "re-tooling" in August although I have seen a few cars with very early or very late August manufacturing dates.)  Who owns 2762333 though 2762629, such that I have not accidentally captured a single one of these cars?  Kindly report in now with your BMW Archives email data!

 

OK, I'm off on a tangent now, best to sign off...

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited August 31, 2016 by Conserv

[saaron]

1 hour ago, MatthewCervi said:

I'd check directly with Paul.  I'm pretty sure the change back to plastic isn't documented in the parts book--more of a case of "yeah, these metal runners do work a lot better, but we only ordered a trial run of 200 of them so lets go back to plastic until more come in.  The biergarten is going to fill up if we waste any more time talking about this."

 

 

Yes - ask Paul.  I thought at one point he actually posted the vins - I think he figured this phenomenon out when he worked somewhere ordering parts - it was through that experience vs. what the BMW materials said.  

 

1 hour ago, Conserv said:

The last '72 I have listed on my VIN cheat sheet is 2762332, manufactured July 26, 1972.

 

Mine is June 23 (again, euro, so not germane to this convo - though it does make you wonder when the euro cars switched plenums/heads and whether they also switched back and forth) and Paul's was the 22nd, I think.  I think I have that correct.  So pretty close to the last vin you have, Steve.

 

My biggest "wondering" based on my car and Paul's was - it made me think that they were making both versions at the same time.  Two assembly lines?  One line flip-flopping day to day?  USA today, euro tomorrow?  Batches (lets make 100 of these, then 100 of those)?  In my mind I always pictured once you would do something like convert a head and plenum, that there would be some day where it switched for USA and euro cars, you wouldn't be making two versions concurrently.    

 

Oh well.  Like I said, we need to find some BMW retirees that understand it.  Maybe Rob you should post on the German 02 site?  

 

Scott

 

 

[Ensign]

I have a block from a donor engine #2761742. This is the information provided by the BMW archives:

The BMW 2002 tii US VIN 2761742 was manufactured on May 17th, 1972 and delivered on June 02nd, 1972 to the BMW importer Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City. The original colour was Inka, paint code 022.

 

I also have information of the block, currently in my car, but is not original to my car:

The BMW 2002 tii US VIN 2762988 was manufactured on November 08th, 1972 and delivered on November 10th, 1972 to the BMW importer Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City. The original colour was Colorado, paint code 002.

The color of my tii is Colorado, so it’s a nice coincidence that the engine block is also from a Colorado tii.

[JohnM]

2761950 Fjord born 6/20/1972

[saaron]

40 minutes ago, JohnM said:

2761950 Fjord born 6/20/1972

 

Wow - mine was three days later, but euro version.  Interesting that they were on car 1950 USA version at that point, and mine 2286 euro version.  Pretty close together.  

 

Scott

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

2761950 Fjord born 6/20/1972

 

John,

 

Can you please confirm that your car has aluminum intake runners, an E12 head, and a firewall notch?  Our best records to date -- assembled by Paul Wegweiser -- show the initial changeover to aluminum intake runners at VIN 2761944.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, Ensign said:

I have a block from a donor engine #2761742. This is the information provided by the BMW archives:

 

The BMW 2002 tii US VIN 2761742 was manufactured on May 17th, 1972 and delivered on June 02nd, 1972 to the BMW importer Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City. The original colour was Inka, paint code 022.

 

 

 

I also have information of the block, currently in my car, but is not original to my car:

 

The BMW 2002 tii US VIN 2762988 was manufactured on November 08th, 1972 and delivered on November 10th, 1972 to the BMW importer Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City. The original colour was Colorado, paint code 002.

 

The color of my tii is Colorado, so it’s a nice coincidence that the engine block is also from a Colorado tii.

 

 

 

 

Thanks, Tony,

 

Two, unrelated, comments:

 

First, VIN 2761742's engine block was cast March 13, 1972 ("13C" within an oval frame below "72"), approximately 2 months before the car was manufactured.

 

Second, I just happen to have a photo of the window sticker for VIN 2762987, the tii manufactured immediately before VIN 2762988 -- see below.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Conserv

[PaulTWinterton]

1 hour ago, Ensign said:

The BMW 2002 tii US VIN 2762988

 

My car was up the line a bit.  30 cars up the line.

[Rastadog]

2764501, Malaga, saddle, sunroof

mfg 7/16/73

[02Les]

8 hours ago, Ensign said:

I have a block from a donor engine #2761742. This is the information provided by the BMW archives:

 

The BMW 2002 tii US VIN 2761742 was manufactured on May 17th, 1972 and delivered on June 02nd, 1972 to the BMW importer Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City. The original colour was Inka, paint code 022.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FWIW:

2761742 - in 2009, car was owned by Corky Benson, NC. Car was Inka & had M2 mtr, 5 spd & LSD. May still be motoring along somewhere.

[Conserv]

8 minutes ago, 02Les said:

FWIW:

2761742 - in 2009, car was owned by Corky Benson, NC. Car was Inka & had M2 mtr, 5 spd & LSD. May still be motoring along somewhere.

 

Very cool, Les,

 

Now we know why the engine for VIN 2761742 is “out on its own”!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[Ensign]

50 minutes ago, 02Les said:

2761742 - in 2009, car was owned by Corky Benson, NC. Car was Inka & had M2 mtr, 5 spd & LSD. May still be motoring along somewhere.

Interesting.....thanks for sharing. The engine was shipped to me from New Mexico where, I was told, it sat on a pallet for 20 years after being salvaged from a totaled tii. It seems to be in good shape, but I have no use for it. I bought the engine for all of the other parts.

Regards,

Tony

[glashaus]

I have a 1974 Chamonix (originally Malaga) 2002 tii (2782224) SCCA ITA race car. The power plant is 2762712 with a spare engine, 2761243

[David Layton]

1973 Atlantik, 2763309