Tii VIN Number Thread

[RenaissanceMan]

@Conserv The motor I have is 2761877 which I believe to have come from a 1972 build. Again my chassis is 2781386. Would be cool to have that block at least... 

Edited July 11, 2020 by RenaissanceMan

[RenaissanceMan]

23 hours ago, AWatry said:

If you're also Renaissance Man on the BB, yes, I know you. I'm Andrew on the BB.

I have block 2760341, which came out of this car. Happy to sell it now that I have the orig back in.

I built a custom engine stand out of 2x4s to hold an Alfa engine, but it rotted away. I happened on this setup with a Tiger 260, it's much more adaptable. Even the Tiger didn't flip the stand over with the engine strapped down. I don't run them in, just test for proper operation, oil pressure, compression, leaks, etc. Then they go pretty quickly in the car to break in the rings.

2002 motor is a challenge since it sits at 45*. I have an Alfa engine-in-crate holder from Alfaholics, worked perfectly on the exhaust side to support the engine at the proper angle.

Andrew

 

Yup, that's me! Good to see ya here.  I'm neck deep in the completion of the restoration of my GTV (getting close), so I'm not in a rush to resume work on the tii, but in the meantime would love to at least acquire a motor from a '74tii and either sell mine or keep as a backup.

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, RenaissanceMan said:

@Conserv The motor I have is 2761877 which I believe to have come from a 1972 build. Again my chassis is 2781386. Would be cool to have that block at least... 

 

Yes, VIN 2761877 was probably a very late May 1972 build: 121 head, plastic intake runners. Block, head, accumulator, pump, valve cover, etc. probably all have casting dates between February 1972 and May 1972.

 

Hey, you never know: long-dormant blocks turn up in garages all the time,

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[m-tuner]

My  late e12 1972 tii is all original, the casting date on the head  is march 1972, the timing cover is april 1972, so they were building e12 tii motors in april /may and it was installed the last week of 1972 tii production #2762497

[tjones02]

BMW changed from 121 to E12 at 2761944.

 

Back to 121 at 2762014.

 

And back to E12 again at 2762372.
 

As far as I know, the intake always followed/matched the cylinder head. As in plastic runners for 121 heads and aluminum runners for E12 heads.

[AWatry]

Here is 2762669 back in 2762669. Got it installed Saturday, went out and broke in the rings Sunday. Basically all good, a couple little leaks to fix. Runs like stink! Have not done a hot compression yet but with cold compression all at 180, much better than before, plus Euro tii pistons, plus larger bore, plus IE cam, plus Norman Racing valve job = strong engine.

One easy thing, check your throttle linkage. Set up on the engine/pump was good, but the rods on the body were such that it was getting barely half throttle with the pedal on the floor. Adjusted some, now getting 90% throttle, so that's a lot of free horsepower.

Do folks generally retorque heads on these? On Alfas you always do, but that's alum head on alum block. So I'm curious. Thanks

Andrew

[AWatry]

Is there reasoning behind why the back and forth between E12 and 121 heads? The 71 block in my car, 2760341, had a 1980 121 head with alum runners and bathtub pistons. The correct block, 2762669, now has an E12 head with alum runners. I went with that because it was the best of the three heads I had and I found high CR grand piano pistons to match.

 

Andrew

[Conserv]

On 7/13/2020 at 9:46 AM, AWatry said:

Is there reasoning behind why the back and forth between E12 and 121 heads? The 71 block in my car, 2760341, had a 1980 121 head with alum runners and bathtub pistons. The correct block, 2762669, now has an E12 head with alum runners. I went with that because it was the best of the three heads I had and I found high CR grand piano pistons to match.

 

Andrew

Andrew,

 

BMW developed a new combustion chamber design for the E12 series (introduced in 1972), and that name was attached to this revised head. It was certainly better from an emissions standpoint than its predecessor. But many will argue whether it was better from a power standpoint. At worst, it is probably as powerful as the preceding design, the 121.

 

This new head, the E12, enabled U.S. 1973 carbureted cars to operate without an air pump.  Despite emissions standards that ratcheted up each year, this was the first U.S.-spec model to not need an air pump since 1968, when the U.S.’s comprehensive new emissions standards went into effect. This suggests to me, at least, that the E12 head was effective in reducing emissions.

 

Although the injected tii never had an air pump, BMW seemed intent on switching over to the E12 head, for carbed and injected cars alike, before the 1973 model year. I have no clear idea why this changeover needed to be done in the middle of the 1972 model year, but that’s what happened.

 

We speculate that there were head supply issues causing the on, off, on-again character of the 121-to-E12 changeover, but we really don’t know any such facts.

 

The tii, in particular, was complicated because BMW was simultaneously moving from the problematic plastic runners (fitment, cracking, installation) to aluminum runners. Tii intake manifolds, too, changed with the E12 adoption. Is it conceivable that some of these other tii components, or even those early “hand cut” firewall notches — and not E12 heads, per se — were in short supply or otherwise problematic? I’d say it is.

 

The first batch of U.S. tii’s with E12 heads, etc. (VIN’s 2761944 through 2762014) represent one or two days of tii production (as @mtuner has noted). Was that intended simply as a production test -- to tease out potential issues -- before un-interrupted E12 production began with VIN 2762373? Maybe.

 

Regardless, We’ve got both U.S. and Euro-spec 1972 tii’s with 121 heads and with E12 heads. And, don’t forget that some tii’s were converted post-factory from 121 to E12, in order to get away from those plastic runners — which we now cherish!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[AWatry]

Thank you. I would have gone with whichever head/piston combo made most sense for my car. The E12 head, which came off a friend's 76 carbed car, was the best I had by far. It probably wasn't original to that car either.

Andrew

[m-tuner]

the e12 is a evolution of the 121, it had larger intake valves, the 6 cylinder triple hemisferical combustion chamber, a lot less detention, a lot less valve shrouding, and put out the same hp with less compression, the aluminum intake was also the same as the six cylinders, and a lot less engine fires due to vacuum leaks. this set up was used in the e21 /m10 with cis injection, and a lot less parts.

[magnus]

On 7/13/2020 at 6:26 AM, AWatry said:

Here is 2762669 back in 2762669. Got it installed Saturday, went out and broke in the rings Sunday. Basically all good, a couple little leaks to fix. Runs like stink! Have not done a hot compression yet but with cold compression all at 180, much better than before, plus Euro tii pistons, plus larger bore, plus IE cam, plus Norman Racing valve job = strong engine.

One easy thing, check your throttle linkage. Set up on the engine/pump was good, but the rods on the body were such that it was getting barely half throttle with the pedal on the floor. Adjusted some, now getting 90% throttle, so that's a lot of free horsepower.

Do folks generally retorque heads on these? On Alfas you always do, but that's alum head on alum block. So I'm curious. Thanks

Andrew

This made my day! Glad I got bored and fired up the FAQ just to see what was going on. You're giving that car the love I never could, so good! I'm glad that block and crank were salvageable! Keep up the good work!

[Pierre]

74 Polaris

2782900  Dec 1974.  One of the last US tii built.

Previously owned by Leif Anderberg, founder of the BMW ACA, which eventually became the Los Angeles chapter of the CCA.

I bought from John Barlow, the founder of SoCal Vintage back in 2003.

[m-tuner]

I have engine #2760592, its a very early 121 tii , came with a 1973 tii I bought in new england, I also have more ,will get the numbers as they get unearthed from been covered up  Bruce Mtuner

[Gordon]

On 7/11/2020 at 1:08 PM, RenaissanceMan said:

@Conserv The motor I have is 2761877 which I believe to have come from a 1972 build. Again my chassis is 2781386. Would be cool to have that block at least... 

I have a very similar situation, my motor is 2762096 from a parted out rusty 72 tii. The motor was rebuilt in 2003 to Euro tii specs (9.5:1 comp ratio) and sits in my 74 tii, 2780763.  Last year I found the original motor for my tii in California.  It has been recently rebuilt and I can buy it for 8K. Figure on shipping, installation costs, etc... I'm over 5 figures for a motor that has a different VIN than mine. If I had an original early 72 tii, I would jump at the opportunity to buy the original motor. My 74 tii is a restomod so it's not original but runs awesome.   I'll pass for now but if I match six out of six numbers, that's a different story.

[Conserv]

58 minutes ago, Gordon said:

I have a very similar situation, my motor is 2762096 from a parted out rusty 72 tii. The motor was rebuilt in 2003 to Euro tii specs (9.5:1 comp ratio) and sits in my 74 tii, 2780763.  Last year I found the original motor for my tii in California.  It has been recently rebuilt and I can buy it for 8K. Figure on shipping, installation costs, etc... I'm over 5 figures for a motor that has a different VIN than mine. If I had an original early 72 tii, I would jump at the opportunity to buy the original motor. My 74 tii is a restomod so it's not original but runs awesome.   I'll pass for now but if I match six out of six numbers, that's a different story.

Well: that’s pretty frustrating!

 

That’s a killer, Gordon: finding the original engine but finding it’s $8K just to start the reunion! Maybe you just try to keep track of it, so if you, or a subsequent owner, wants to spend some serious dough, you or they can re-unite them.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve